High score games retired early?

[Naboka]

Or, as in the case of a game that came next. Just avoid the big fish by getting out of reach.

I think I'm moving toward fanship of the 600 point rule.

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[Naboka]

Just played this game. And when the thrill of doing well subsided, it occured to me that I'd just made this a target of the really big fish.

Players click through games looking for whatever satisfies their goal. A big fish would click past a game played 30 plus times with a high score of 315 and not bother. However, a game with 500 points with 264 possible words would chum the waters.

I'd wondered why some exceptional players tended to stick in the lower scoring games. Now, I understand.

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[BoggleOtaku]

So, is it a threshold of 600 to retire a game for both 4x4 and 5x5 cases?

Since 4x4 / 5x5 boards give 121 / 181 seconds to play, such retiring (if we must have it) should proportionally occur at 600 / 900 points to account for the time difference. Longer words in 5x5 helps in addition, so 1000 points may be even more reasonable. Breaking 1000 in 5x5 seems to be a similar elite accomplishment to breaking 600 in 4x4, a handful of people in each case.

Otherwise, in at least one case, the threshold is suboptimal.

[2cute]

2cute,

Yes, that's the "program cheaters" I was referring to. Don't have a clue as to how they do it. Perfect scores with every word on every game.

Mclag was offering a solution after I had voiced frustration about not being able to find unplayed words.

Mclag's solver would be something you used AFTER you've played the game. The program cheaters use solvers WHILE playing.

The problem with mclag's solution is twofold.

The first is efficiency. A huge number of words in Wordtwist are completely useless outside the game. Solvers will find even more useless words than exist in the Wordtwist database. Trying to use any of those "extra" words while playing has the opportunity cost of not having time to type words that actually do score. And who needs hundreds of extra words that you can't use either at the dinner table or in Wordtwist?

Solvers also don't provide point values for words. I'm on my 3rd 240 page notebook of high-point words. I don't want additional words than can't be played and that have zero points cluttering up a mind already reeking of hoarderism.

The second problem is ethics/fairness. I suppose a person could have the solver at hand, type in all the letters of the grid and find the longest word for that game. But, that would cheat other players who are using their personal skills out of getting that record. Only the first person finding the word gets the credit.

Okay, thanks! Right, by using an implement to help you play the game isn't fair to those who don't. So that's how you've achieved your 600+ scoring, you're studying & keeping track of useful words to use.

As for the eat, ate, tea, eta anagram: yes, you got my point. An extra e would be nice. "Easter" is worth more points than you'd expect. But the anagrams for those letters provide lots of low scoring words that are super repetitive and not very interesting.

As for success? Lots of work and study usually lurk unseen behind the glory. Along with a number of sub-200 point games, I've already managed 34 games this month over 600. Scores of hours memorizing words and practicing typing went into that. Considering all the things I could have been doing with those hours elsewhere, I wonder if it's worth the effort. But, being obsessive provides blinders that make that question irrelevant during the obsession.

Yes, that's how success goes. Like in the Olympics, those skaters or snowboarders, they've spent hours & hours practicing to do that run or routine that we get to see in the 'finished' performance. Or like a tennis player, they've practiced the serve or strokes they play on the court hundreds of hours before we get to see them play it in a match. So you're doing the same except for WordTwist. For you there's no medal or trophy when you achieve your best game, except for the 'best' score for that moment in time until someone else matches or beats it. Then all your work vanishes. There's no permanent record of your success (except if you get a trophy on your profile).

I must admit, I don't spend the time like you so I don't deserve the accolades. I'm here just for the fun of it (& the great conversations). I don't keep track of words or have lists & I'm certainly not studying useless words to use here or outside in the 'real world'. I'd be lucky if I can remember the new bird I researched today (seriamas) for the next time.

I admire your dedication & congrats on your success!

[Naboka]

2cute,

Yes, that's the "program cheaters" I was referring to. Don't have a clue as to how they do it. Perfect scores with every word on every game.

Mclag was offering a solution after I had voiced frustration about not being able to find unplayed words.

Mclag's solver would be something you used AFTER you've played the game. The program cheaters use solvers WHILE playing.

The problem with mclag's solution is twofold.

The first is efficiency. A huge number of words in Wordtwist are completely useless outside the game. Solvers will find even more useless words than exist in the Wordtwist database. Trying to use any of those "extra" words while playing has the opportunity cost of not having time to type words that actually do score. And who needs hundreds of extra words that you can't use either at the dinner table or in Wordtwist?

Solvers also don't provide point values for words. I'm on my 3rd 240 page notebook of high-point words. I don't want additional words than can't be played and that have zero points cluttering up a mind already reeking of hoarderism.

The second problem is ethics/fairness. I suppose a person could have the solver at hand, type in all the letters of the grid and find the longest word for that game. But, that would cheat other players who are using their personal skills out of getting that record. Only the first person finding the word gets the credit.

As for the eat, ate, tea, eta anagram: yes, you got my point. An extra e would be nice. "Easter" is worth more points than you'd expect. But the anagrams for those letters provide lots of low scoring words that are super repetitive and not very interesting.

As for success? Lots of work and study usually lurk unseen behind the glory. Along with a number of sub-200 point games, I've already managed 34 games this month over 600. Scores of hours memorizing words and practicing typing went into that. Considering all the things I could have been doing with those hours elsewhere, I wonder if it's worth the effort. But, being obsessive provides blinders that make that question irrelevant during the obsession.

[2cute]

Excellence, is perhaps, in the eye of the beholder. Kind of you to consider me an elite player. You might think differently if you saw me without make up. If you saw me floundering and scoring 200 points where someone else has the high score over 500.

If someone were writing a check for our successes here, how well we do might become more meaningful than personal satisfaction. But, as long as personal satisfaction is the paycheck, a 300 point player can be just as well paid as a 1,000 point player.

I don't view success in the form of $, I think it can be achieved in other ways. If someone (you) can even find a 600 point game not just once (luck), but several times, that's success.

Fascinating how each player's approach to the game evolves. How we set rules and standards for ourselves. We're like snowflakes: each formed into its own distinct shape.

Absolutely.

It's the kind of purity that Zen Masters give up bacon to achieve. Of course, repetition can make one seek newer ground. Like how many times do you want to type the e a s t r combos?

B A C O N!!!

... E A S T R combos? I think you're missing an E. LOL ...

No, I don't understand what you mean. What is this? I know the EAT ATE TEA ETA combos, is this the same thing?

The thrill is discovering the new stuff. That's when the endorphines kick in.

I don't play just to get the highest score. I play a lot of games that the program cheaters have maxed out. That's one way to find the mystery words. Playing those games makes it impossible to get recognized as scoring the most. Playing those games is just a means to an end, a stroll to discovery.

Finding new words can become frustrating. I've played some games where I'm only a few short of all the played words, but can't find the dozen or two words not played. No matter how long I study the board after time runs out.

I suppose that's the silver lining to computer aided cheaters.

Which begs the question: if retiring a board with the capacity for well over 1,000 points simply for the 600 point rules makes sense, why aren't smaller boards with all the words played by cheaters recycled?

What do you mean by 'program cheaters'? Is this what Mclag was referring ... some sort of computer aided program that finds all the words in the board for you?

[2cute]

One way to find the missing words is to enter the completed game into a solver to see what was missed.

Hmm ... I've never heard of such a thing. Where would I find one?

[mclag]

One way to find the missing words is to enter the completed game into a solver to see what was missed.

[Naboka]

Yay!

Wow! When I first began playing I felt like I was cheating not playing every game that came up, yet over time I got board since I could never get even close to the record already established for that game, so that's when I too began sift through games where I might add a new word or come close the achieved score. Of course, I've never done your marathon sifting, if I sift more than a minute & can't find a game, I'll either switch type of games or come read the forum, I just don't have your patience.

I think the recycling of boards is for the rest of us who can't get 600 points per game. While you & many who participate in this forum are the elite players, not everyone can keep up with your excellence, so the boards are recycled so the rest of us (yes, including me) can continue to enjoy playing the games).

Excellence, is perhaps, in the eye of the beholder. Kind of you to consider me an elite player. You might think differently if you saw me without make up. If you saw me floundering and scoring 200 points where someone else has the high score over 500.

If someoner were writing a check for our successes here, how well we do might become more meaningful than personal satisfaction. But, as long as personal satisfaction is the paycheck, a 300 point player can be just as well paid as a 1,000 point player.

Fascinating how each player's approach to the game evolves. How we set rules and standards for ourselves. We're like snowflakes: each formed into its own distinct shape.

clicking through games goes pretty quickly. I put on music and time becomes irrelevant, all movement part of an elaborate dance.

Repetition can have meditative qualities. Time without reference to changes in matter and energy is pure repetion. It's the kind of purity that Zen Masters give up bacon to achieve.

Of course, repetition can make one seek newer ground. Like how many times do you want to type the e a s t r combos?

The thrill is discovering the new stuff. That's when the endorphines kick in.

I don't play just to get the highest score. I play a lot of games that the program cheaters have maxed out. That's one way to find the mystery words. Playing those games makes it impossible to get recognized as scoring the most. Playing those games is just a means to an end, a stroll to discovery.

Finding new words can become frustrating. I've played some games where I'm only a few short of all the played words, but can't find the dozen or two words not played. No matter how long I study the board after time runs out.

I suppose that's the silver lining to computer aided cheaters.

Which begs the question: if retiring a board with the capacity for well over 1,000 points simply for the 600 point rules makes sense, why aren't smaller boards with all the words played by cheaters recycled?

[2cute]

I've noticed it on the 4X4's.

I've been clicking through 2,000 -3,000 plus games a day for the same reason as you. Looking for promising games to learn new words.

Yay!

I know it's that many games because I alternate fingers on my right hand, holding down "control" and clicking "r," counting a hundred each finger before moving on to the next. To spread the stress on tendons. So, in the last 60 days, that's at least 150,000 games.

Wow! When I first began playing I felt like I was cheating not playing every game that came up, yet over time I got board since I could never get even close to the record already established for that game, so that's when I too began sift through games where I might add a new word or come close the achieved score. Of course, I've never done your marathon sifting, if I sift more than a minute & can't find a game, I'll either switch type of games or come read the forum, I just don't have your patience.

I think the recycling of boards is for the rest of us who can't get 600 points per game. While you & many who participate in this forum are the elite players, not everyone can keep up with your excellence, so the boards are recycled so the rest of us (yes, including me) can continue to enjoy playing the games).

[HyacinthBucket6]

I agree with Naboka, in that I don't think any boards are actually retired. The statistics are simply cleared and the board returns to the pool. With so many different possibilities for boards, it probably wouldn't be unusual not to see a certain board for months at a time. I guess it's just "luck of the draw" as they say!

[bwt1213]

I strongly suspect that boards are retired by wiping their records clean, and eventually they return. But they don't always come back right away. I also suspect that there are a lot more boards available than there used to be and only a fraction of those boards are in play. So a retired board might not come back for a month or so, or even longer. I remember, perhaps five years ago or so, that retired boards would come right back. I would remember a board and remember who had the record on it and about what that record was, and I'd see that same board again the next day as an unplayed board or maybe with a few plays on it and someone else having a much lower best score. But I don't see that now. I think there are enough boards now that if they recycled one I am very unlikely to notice it. I have a good memory, but I'm not superhuman, so even if I had seen it before the chances of me remembering it now are less than they were. Back when I first started here, I even recognized boards that had been rotated 90 degrees or 180 degrees. I haven't seen that in a really long time.

[Naboka]

Boards aren't really "retired" are they? Aren't they simply wiped clean and reinstalled into the system as "new" boards?

[bwt1213]

Before the new update and dictionary(or dictionaries) were added and all the boards reset, I thought the board (at least in 4x4) was retired or reset after the 51st person played it. I always thought that was how it was done. I'm not sure if it's changed now.

Yeah, it was "score over 600 or more than 50 plays". Here's the thing: Suppose you're me, but unlike me you really care if you get credit for the high score on a board and want that added to your lifetime total. If you score 633 on a board, then you want it retired before someone else can beat your score. You don't want Megaword or Fasteddieb to see it and realize they could probably score over 1200, or some other game gunslinger to see it as their ticket to a 1000+ point game -- and if I scored 633, that's EXACTLY what it would mean, too. There are players who enjoy adding "highest score" boards to their trophy case and I mean no insult to them; we all play the game for our own rewards, and we should. But if boards were retired only after 51 plays, posting the highest score for a board would become much harder. Really strong players would take "highest score" on almost every board and players like me would almost never get one. As I said, that wouldn't bother me in the least. But it would bother others.

[HyacinthBucket6]

Before the new update and dictionary(or dictionaries) were added and all the boards reset, I thought the board (at least in 4x4) was retired or reset after the 51st person played it. I always thought that was how it was done. I'm not sure if it's changed now.