Speed Records and "Cheating"

[Dunderchief]

Below is from a puzzle I just worked in logged-out non-competitive mode. Very fast time in a longer, harder puzzle, but I would have only gotten 245 points had I been logged in.

I too stopped playing in competition mode bcz there simply is no way the points have any meaning at all. And yet, I am too competitive a person to ignore them if logged in! So I personally want to work the harder and longer puzzle bcz they are more of a challenge and gave up on the competition aspect bcz -- cheating or not -- it is just meaningless here.

I have to agree -- reluctantly -- that it is not really "cheating" to select shorter and easier puzzles if the system lets you do that. I have no comments about other cheating tactics that manipulate the system or hack into it or something, I have no idea on how to even go about that.

But I have said this before multiple times: I do NOT think the game system should allow players to select shorter and easier puzzle WHEN they are logged in to competitive mode. If logged in, don't show the puzzles statistics to the player, ANY statistics, before they hit the button to begin the game. Force the player to select the random puzzle assigned or get docked with an incomplete game. That would at least eliminate one category that is "negatory" to the majority of players on here. Whether it is "cheating" or not, having to take what you get would at least give some meaning to the scores, relative to other players, it would even the playing field.

However, the statistics SHOULD be available to those NOT in competitive mode. Especially if you are just starting out, you ought to be able to pick easier puzzles until you get the hang of it.

I have no idea how hard or easy or practicable it would be to make the change I recommend.

Well, gotta go -- lots of dirty deeds to get to today!

This Puzzle's Statistics Success Rate: 55.6% Average Time: 1239 seconds Record Time: 307 seconds (Struggler) Your Time: 705 seconds Performance: Above Average

705 307 773.1 1239.3 3717.9 6196.5

PS -- the bell graph part disappeared when I hit the reply button, but trust me - the score was above the "very fast" line which was at 773.1 seconds.

[redpicker]

Compuspud, you have a point. I guess a lot depends on what you consider cheating. Choosing only easy puzzles, in my book, shouldn't be considered cheating since the board allows you to do that without penalty. If one was to only choose easy puzzles, it wouldn't be long before they started seeing repeats, in the clues as well as the puzzles. If, at this time, one was to start a new account, that person could maintain a very high score average and a 100% solving rate.

Since there is nothing on the board that prevents or even discourages such tactics, I'd have a hard time to consider that cheating. Same thing for using Google to find what element has an atomic number of 106. While I don't pick and choose my puzzles, I will use Google to find the atomic number of americium or the name of a song of a K-pop group I have never heard of. I take the puzzles as they come and take pride in trying to maintain a 100% solving rate, even if it might take me hours or more to complete a puzzle (I will, on occasion, go to bed with a puzzle open because I can't figure it out and return the next day. It's amazing how taking a new look at one I was stumped on will help).

What I do consider cheating is hacking into the programming of the board. Or building, maintaining, or using a database of puzzle solutions to allow the player to achieve the solution without even reading the clues. I guess some would argue there is no difference between using Google on obscure clues and the use of a solution database, but I definitely see one; since I am the only one whose opinion I care about on this issue, it doesn't matter.

In short, I don't spend much time wondering if someone cheats or not. I have no doubt there are players who are better than I am. Much better. Good for them. Me, I have solved 146 puzzles (100%) this month with an average score of 237.6! WOOT!

[compuspud]

Redpicker, Hitting 800 points occasionally, even frequently (if you pick and choose which puzzles you solve) is certainly doable (I get 800 every so often). Taking only 35-50 seconds to solve a puzzle also is doable occasionally (although I've never done one that fast) But, doing both all the time, and solving all the puzzles--that's really hard to believe. Of course, if you need to cheat on a free game like this, good luck to you.

[redpicker]

Still waiting for the explanation of how cheating is taking place. Seen lots of accusations, but nothing else. Some of the times do seem incredible, but doing a puzzle several times, some folks apparently can solve it as quickly as they can type. Check the names of the folks with most of the ultra fast times and you will note that most have played on the site a lot.

I don't believe that anyone believes that all of the high scores (or even most) are due to people cheating. I tip my hat to those who can consistently score 800. I have hit 800 a few times, but no records for me. Some players are just good. But, there has been some mighty suspicious behavior reported, though.

For example, awhile back, somebody reported that they received a record score on a puzzle only to have the record broken minutes later by player "X". At the time, "X" was also the all time points leader. Obviously, a talented player. However, this is pretty strong evidence that "X" had the ability to call a particular puzzle by puzzle number (after seeing it posted on the records page). If a person had two accounts and the ability to call a specific puzzle on command, then the ability to solve a puzzle at leisure on one account then in record time on the other is possible. I am not sure this ever happened, but, at least at one point in time, it was possible. I find it interesting that "X" has not played a single puzzle since the migration earlier this year, same for a few other record-holding players. Not iron-clad proof of anything, but mighty suspicious, in my book.

I do believe that there are players out there that are just so much better than I am and that it takes a lot more than an amazingly fast solution time to make me think people are cheating. Some people are just good and I am not. It also makes sense that those who are truly good have multiple record scores, since if they are truly fast, they are fast on most every puzzle they play. I am not in that category, but I still enjoy the challenge.

I would also like to thank the Admin group for keeping this site running. I believe they have addressed some (or most? all?) of the issues that apparently had been exploited in the past.

I read somewhere that with a computer game, one cannot cheat; that is, if the programming allows you to play a certain way, that is acceptable. Exploiting loopholes in the programming is part of the game. If a particular loophole is not intended to be used, then the people who write the software are at fault, not the ones exploiting it.

[hootmon]

Well said, Rachaar. Hopefully this will answer many of the folks on this site who are amazed at some of the record times. I know I am in awe of many of them, and have set a few myself which were done using many of the techniques you have mentioned. Thanks

[rachaar]

Hi. High-score having "cheater" here. Some years ago, on the previous iteration of these forums, I went out of my way to record and share a video of myself solving a puzzle in record time in a good faith effort to try to show how it can work. Some folks still think I somehow fudged it. So I'm not going to bother trying to prove anything again. I'm just going to agree with hootmon - you see the same names not because we all really enjoy cheating, but because a lot of us play a lot (I'm assuming not just acrostics but other word puzzles), and that means we get good at the things that lead to record times - pattern recognition, trivia, vocabulary, remembering clues that are used repeatedly, etc. Some of us are also just fast typists (I average around 140 wpm).

For another example of this, you might look at some of the record puzzle-solvers that compete in crossword tournaments, like the ACPT - I routinely place in a competitive position in the at-home divisions of crossword tournaments, and there are still people WAY better than me. After a point, you just have to accept that this is a gift, or a talent, or a skill, or whatever that people have. Occam's razor: are people going out of their way to cheat on a small puzzle website with absolutely no tangible benefit to setting the high score? Or is it possible that people really are just that fast?

There are folks that have already posted something along these lines, and I'm going to underline it: be happy with your scores when you set a time you're proud of! Your accomplishment there is not lessened because of other people's times.

[hootmon]

Still waiting for the explanation of how cheating is taking place. Seen lots of accusations, but nothing else. Some of the times do seem incredible, but doing a puzzle several times, some folks apparently can solve it as quickly as they can type. Check the names of the folks with most of the ultra fast times and you will note that most have played on the site a lot.

[James552]

I read all these comments, and am interested in this topic.
A year or two ago, I started a Forum chat because I was very skeptical of all these phenomenal solving times. I maintained that it wasn’t possible to solve these puzzles that rapidly without cheating in some way. For instance, a puzzle has an average solving time of 800 seconds. I will sometimes be able to solve it in 290 seconds, which I think is pretty good, and then I see that someone has solved it in 91 seconds! That someone is often named Svenska or Halfdutch. ( There are several others whose names don’t spring to mind. ). I believe many of these record scores are impossible to achieve without cheating.
When I started that thread, I received a lot of comments, most of which speculated on ways some people could be “gaming” the system (pun intended). However, there were also a number of condescending/snarky comments about how I must be a beginner, how I just needed to keep playing to improve my times, how it was just sour grapes, etc.
So I just let it go, and kept playing for my own amusement, noting many of the impossible record scores with additional amusement.
It’s gonna take a pretty compelling argument to convince me that one can do a puzzle with an average solving time of 1017 seconds in 42 seconds without cheating in some way!

[catmadwoman]

Curious to see my scores now that I'm playing as a "member" after playing as a non-member for a year. I've beaten the posted high score once, but wasn't a member and couldn't log it. I don't know about how one might mechanically cheat, but some low scores have seemed humanly impossible. Once, I knew the quote from the first word that I put together (I knew the author) and typed the whole thing in as fast as I could and was still 30 seconds behind the lowest time. I've encountered quotes twice, recognized and remember them and typed them in, and still not got close to high score...

I'm usually at about one half to one quarter of the average time, and often within 30 to 60 seconds of the best time. No college degrees, just widely-read, a bit manic, and a writer myself. (I've encountered 5 quotes from the books of friends in the last year, and sent 3 of them screenshots; all were quite chuffed)

Now this is the comment I would like Admin to answer.

[stewartp]

Your experience is similar to mine, except that my times are somewhat better than when I used to routinely have the best times and success rates, if not the most "points." In those days, it was "Aunt Marie" whose absurd times in some cases still have not been beaten. Now every so often we have a new player who breaks the records of previous "phenoms." Faster typists? Who knows? Who cares? I play it straight and have no desire use improper methods to achieve unrealistic times.

[pub4]

Just to add my two cents about not being able to equal the average time or get higher scores:

When I first found this site, I liked doing Lasergrids a lot. I wanted a high score trophy, so I chose to do the largest and most difficult puzzles because it was the fastest way to accumulate points toward a monthly trophy. I got the highest score or the second (or so) score for most of the puzzles I played. However, if I play this game now, I am nowhere near the top scorer. I'm not sure what happened. Did I slow down, or do we have faster solvers, or maybe both?

There is a big difference in my rankings, to be honest, but I don't remember my scores so can't compare them. My cognitive abilities are not what they were, but I don't think that I've slowed down so much to make such a big difference.

The point is that perhaps there simply are people who are on this site who are just that much better than I am. I actually used to score higher than the original poster did on standardized tests. I also have a much higher IQ than the majority of people, or I did. Like I said, cognitive abilities and other stuff is decreasing, but I really don't think it's enough to account for the disparity I see between my older and newer rankings. I'm sure that, although I hate to admit it, there is someone (or some people) on here who is just simply faster.

Well, I say that, but that is in regards to number, sequence, logic type puzzles. My language ability has suffered greatly. I can hardly finish a Patchwords puzzle now, so
ADMIN,
if you are listening, please go read my question that I posted in the Patchwords forum. Please?

[CCBC]

I've been a member for a long while but only recently began logging in every time I visit. I quit when I discovered there was no way that the competitive score thing was winnable. Back then, people were just re-taking puzzles by re-entering the code for that item. (That's more difficult now, but I think still doable.) You can always keep a separate registration for your hi-score games. Anyway, now I just play the games. If there were a real competition, I might visit more often.

[compuspud]

Yes, I often get 800. But not every time. And I haven't solved one more puzzle than I attempted, as one player has. No one can be that fast and that perfect every time

[onrust]

I compete against myself, not against the other players... which leads me to not care whether others cheat... that's the easiest answer, I think... and my personal experience is that it IS possible to get 800 points for a puzzle

[AlwaysPuzzled]

Interesting comments and thoughts. I think the most pertinent nd telling point is that no one can solve every puzzle (no matter it's length or if you've seen it before) and average 790 points + And similarly, no one can solve a puzzle in 30 seconds without cheating.

Several users (the only one I can think of is Svenska) are listed as having so many speed records, and they're so fast, that I assumed long ago that there's cheating going on. I'm no speed champion but I'm not that slow. That, with the astronomical monthly points that some people supposedly get -- ONE THOUSAND TIMES more than I do -- made me also long ago give up on trying for any site records. The only thing I "compete" for now is with myself, to get my success rate as close to 100% as possible.