The Five People Are . . . Clue Style.

[BookCat]

I'm not new to logic puzzles. When the magazines full of them could be bought from newsagent shelves way back in the 90s and early 2000s, I bought and worked on them regularly.
However, there is a type of clue which seems to be unique to Puzzle Baron, both online and in the books (I have book 1) which goes something like this:

The five people are Ayden, the one born in June, the Czech, the engineer (whose birthday is later in the year than the Bulgarian's), and Perla. (From Passport Pandemonium in book 1)

These attributes/people are supposed to be all separate, one cannot be the other. Personally I find filling the grid from this type of clue tedious and very confusing. I've started skipping puzzles with clues beginning "The five people are . . . "

I would be grateful for some tips about how to use "The five people are . . . " style of clues to best advantage.

[pcuser]

I've been doing these puzzles for a while now. I found that by doing them in a 'tedious manner', you learn to see how to apply it in a way that you can pivot around them in an efficient manner. It takes time and I'm not sure how to describe it as it feels geometrical concerning the grid. I didn't exactly try to do this. It just happened. Just keep working them and it will come to you in time. If you skip these puzzles, you skip a lot of puzzles. Another thing is if you just start doing the ones you see as hard, you will improve your ability to solve these puzzles.

[uigrad]

Those clues are both good and bad.


The good: You can move all that information to the grid, then click on the clue to delete the clue. When I set records, it's often because I whittle the number of clues down quickly to just a few, and then do the last couple steps in my head.

The bad: If you enter all the information from a "The Five People are..." type clue, it takes a long time. Usually, you'll mark about 9 Xs, and although they may be fresh in your mind for a few seconds, you won't need that information again until near the end of the puzzle, and you'll have to parse it again (although parsing it from the chart is faster than reading the sentences. If I process a "The Five People are..." clue first, it almost always ensures that I'm not going to get a record time.

I've been playing these puzzles for years now, and I'm still looking for ways to improve. A big variable for me right now is how early I process these types of clues. Sometimes I can put them off until nearly the end, and then I see that I already know everything about persons 1, 2, and 4, so the only information that is new is that 3 and 5 are unsolved. If done properly, I can read the clue in just under one second, and visually see exactly where the last 6 green marks need to go in the top part to finish the puzzle enough to turn it in. In these cases, I am often close to setting a record, and occasionally I do set records on them.

But, it's still rare. Putting off an important clue like that until the end is risky. It's very simple information to record, and if I don't do it early, then I may have to resort to far more difficult logic when processing the other clues.

Summary: I still don't know the best way to handle these types of clues. It seems that if I'm trying to set records, I should handle them last, if possible. But if I just want consistently good times, then do them first. It's this risk vs. reward stuff that makes the puzzles interesting to me.

[BookCat]

Thanks.

I don't even attempt to set any records, just try to get the answer right.
I have to say that I prefer puzzles where the clues are given in a more conversational either/or neither/nor style, creating a story-like setting for the puzzles.

I have several Logic Puzzle books at the moment, from different publishers and I'm working on various ones. I haven't quite got the hang of Puzzle Baron's style yet.

I like the idea of leaving the "The five people are . . " clues until the end, when much of the grid has been filled in. Till now I've been trying to enter all the information when I get to the clue. I get so confused by who didn't do what, when and where when it's in this exclusive list form.

I know what you mean about grid geometry. I've recently learned how to do Sudoku puzzles and I'm sure this has affected how I fill in logic puzzle grids; seeing the symmetry of the crosses and ticks (I use ticks in books).

[pcuser]

"I have to say that I prefer puzzles where the clues are given in a more conversational either/or neither/nor style, creating a story-like setting for the puzzles." The clues you and others don't like make for a more challenging puzzle. Of course it's more like accounting style than conversational style. Keep plugging away and it will get easier.

[jkjoyner]

I don't work these puzzles to set time records, just to keep up my logic skills. I find these clues very helpful. I add the info methodically- Start with the first item or person mentioned and then go through the rest of the list sequentially. Obviously skip over any item in the same category. If flight numbers are listed and you are working with flight 27, then skip over flight 22 and move on to the next item. For example, John is not x, y, z, Paris is not x, y, z Flight 22 is x, y, z. etc. Then, look for any substitutions you can make and go through the list again. For example, you find out that John is equal to Flight 25. Go back and cross off Paris- it is not flight 25 etc. You can keep coming back and checking the list to see if more info shows up. They can really help with either/or clues.

[BookCat]

jkjoyner Thanks. I don't do this for speed either, but for fun and to get them right.

Either/or clues I don't mind because it's obvious to me what they're saying. But the silly list following, "The five people are " isn't grammatically exclusive. If I hadn't read on the site and in the books what these clues meant, it's not obvious that each element excludes another, at least not to me.

I was initially doing as you are - going through it methodically; but this is so tedious. So I've decided to leave this clue until I've filled in information from other clues, then returning to "The five people etc". Often the details from this clue has already been filled in from the other clues.

This clue type and the lack of a good story background to the puzzles unfortunately makes the Puzzle Baron books not my favourite. If I bought another of the books, I'd by the large print - the grid is so tiny. If only there were more logic puzzle books and magazines on the market. Sudoku seems to have taken over.