116 seconds for a logic 4x5 logic puzzle?? HOW???

[chemwestla]

Call me dumb... For the life of me, I can't figure out how anyone can do the 4x5 complex puzzles in the times they show. The average is usually 5 to 7 minutes. It always takes me at least 10, and usually 15 minutes. I know about when 2 boxes are open for 2 items in the same grouping, you can cancel out a bunch and that when they give a and b are c and d, you can cancel c and d for anything that can't be a and b, and I get all the order checking for when items are above or below others.

So what am I missing?? I can usually solve the puzzles. It just takes some time.

[ebrum2010]

Only solve the top row of the puzzle. It's basically a waste of time to fill out the rest. If a certain clue can't be depicted in the first row, skip it and come back. If a clue says x is either the one with this name or from that place you know this name and that place are not the same thing so you can usually use that in the first row to show what is not what even if you aren't going vertical. The problem with the larger puzzles is you will have information you can't do anything with until later on unless you're filling out the whole thing, and over time you get faster at knowing what to pass on for now.

[evessal]

Call me dumb... For the life of me, I can't figure out how anyone can do the 4x5 complex puzzles in the times they show. The average is usually 5 to 7 minutes. It always takes me at least 10, and usually 15 minutes. I know about when 2 boxes are open for 2 items in the same grouping, you can cancel out a bunch and that when they give a and b are c and d, you can cancel c and d for anything that can't be a and b, and I get all the order checking for when items are above or below others.

So what am I missing?? I can usually solve the puzzles. It just takes some time.

Don't worry, I'm in the same boat as you. I may sometimes finish the puzzles in less than 1000 seconds, but those are rare (I only do challenging puzzles).
I don't worry about the times, I derive no enjoyment from how fast I finish the puzzles, but the fact that I can do them without error. Maybe there's some wicked trick that allows the really fast times, or maybe it's some mechanical thing that the puzzle form doesn't catch (does hitting the back button when on the puzzle start the puzzle anew and reset the clock?). Who knows.

[ebrum2010]

Don't worry, I'm in the same boat as you. I may sometimes finish the puzzles in less than 1000 seconds, but those are rare (I only do challenging puzzles).
I don't worry about the times, I derive no enjoyment from how fast I finish the puzzles, but the fact that I can do them without error. Maybe there's some wicked trick that allows the really fast times, or maybe it's some mechanical thing that the puzzle form doesn't catch (does hitting the back button when on the puzzle start the puzzle anew and reset the clock?). Who knows.

I'm not sure the puzzles show different record times for different difficulties, I think difficulty only affects points. I'm pretty sure the low times are mostly done on easy difficulty. I could be wrong but the different difficulties of the same size puzzles seem to have the same record times.

[chemwestla]

I'm not sure the puzzles show different record times for different difficulties, I think difficulty only affects points. I'm pretty sure the low times are mostly done on easy difficulty. I could be wrong but the different difficulties of the same size puzzles seem to have the same record times.

I noticed that! I was wondering how the record time seemed to be the same amount of time for the moderate and challenging puzzles.

[evessal]

I'm not sure the puzzles show different record times for different difficulties, I think difficulty only affects points. I'm pretty sure the low times are mostly done on easy difficulty. I could be wrong but the different difficulties of the same size puzzles seem to have the same record times.

Interesting. I thought that each different difficulty would be it's own stand-alone puzzle, but what you say would make sense.

[fiddleback]

I play slowly. I don't mark any square until I know it is correct.

There are many key situations where I have two or three options. I know it would be much quicker to:
-guess and mark a square
-remember that square's position
-continue solving until I hit a contradiction
-click undo until the guess is unmarked
-repeat for another option

Like a maze where you keep testing dead-ends til you find the right path. I don't find it very satisfying, though.

Sure, there are situations that may require a series of guesses, and it may grow confusing to keep track of your "undo" state. But I find that in most puzzles I hit one big snarl and once that is solved everything falls into place. Anyway, maybe the resident wizards are masters of the undo button.

[fleaball]

I'm not sure the puzzles show different record times for different difficulties, I think difficulty only affects points. I'm pretty sure the low times are mostly done on easy difficulty. I could be wrong but the different difficulties of the same size puzzles seem to have the same record times.

Definitely not. I think 70s is the floor for this size puzzle regardless of difficulty, but each level is a unique puzzle with a unique score.

[fleaball]

It ate the rest of my reply. I’m not saying OP or anyone is dumb, but I do think some people are just better at these than others. Maybe they make connections faster or process the clues differently. Some of the records on challenging level puzzles blow my mind but under 100 seconds for moderate isn’t too wild.

[tviolet]

I'm not sure the puzzles show different record times for different difficulties, I think difficulty only affects points. I'm pretty sure the low times are mostly done on easy difficulty. I could be wrong but the different difficulties of the same size puzzles seem to have the same record times.

This is not true, the record times are for the selected level of difficulty. I only play "challenging" 4x5 and I occasionally get the record score. I see the same people who frequently get top scores: contrary is up there a lot, blakenagel, gamestar, millie mcgee in 2021, and others I'm spacing on.

I started playing like four or five years ago after thinking "I've always been bad a logic puzzles, I should learn how to do them well" At first I was really really slow, even on the easy ones But I read all the tips on this site and kept at it. Eventually, I got to the point where I was reliably finishing in the "very fast" category. Then around January of 2021, I switched to top row only. It was hard at first and I couldn't have done it when I first started. But once you get the hang of it, it is substantially faster.

The point is the people with the very fast scores do a *lot* of puzzles. I probably play at least five a day and if it's a lazy afternoon when I'm just killing time, I'll probably do twenty. It's just like anything else, the more you do it, the better you'll get. And I'll also add, I have off days when my brain just won't work, being tired or too much sugar can really affect my time.

[contrary]

Redlead did a really nice write-up of 4x7 logic process for speed solving in this thread, and I and a few other people added our two cents in there as well.

https://forum.puzzlebaron.com/forum/...uzzles-so-fast

I will second what tviolet says - I do a lot of puzzles. I typically try to do them three at a time in 7-10 minute bursts when I need a break in the workday. Sometimes on the weekends I pop up to 4x6 and 4x7, and I've noticed that I tend to be faster on the 4x5's when I come back to them after doing a larger puzzle.

[derek]

I have just completed a 4x5 in 95 secs! practice makes perfect

[megirl3]

hello I am a beginner in this game. I haven't had much practice yet. I am not as good but will work on improving. You seem really good at these puzzles. I find even the easy 3x4 grid ones tricky!

[chemwestla]

Thank you for all the comments! I just read the linked post above. I've started using mainly the top row, and my times are now around the average time for a 4x5. I can't imagine getting much faster. Just reading everything and processing it all takes me time. But at least I'm solving them all.

[contrary]

It seems to me that the people doing them in a ridiculous amount of time that really doesn't even allow for reading through the clues must be pausing it. Hit "save progress", read and get a bunch of squares to mark, mark squares, hit "save progress" again and so on.

No, pausing the game doesn't actually stop the timer, just so that people can't cheat in this way.

I don't read the clues. I scan them for keywords - the relationship words and category names.


The last puzzle I did had the following clues:
1. The silver pack is 5 liters smaller than Hazel
2. Kelley's pack isn't made by Lugmor
3. Hazel's pack is 10 liters smaller than the black pack
4. Of Olga's pack and the orange pack, one is made by Travelore and the other is 40 liters.
5. Jeffery's pack is either black or orange
6. Vickie's pack isn't 35 liters
7. The Pinkster pack is 15 liters smaller than the orange pack
8. The Adironda pack is 10 liters smaller than the gray pack.


What I read was:
1. "Silver" "5 Smaller" Hazel --> Without looking at the grid, realize this is the travel pack puzzle - Names in first set, brands in second, colors in third. 5 liter increments. Mark the no in fifth position for Silver and no in first position for Hazel; as I'm doing it note the anchor of 25 as smallest and 45 as largest.
2. "Kelley" "Isn't" "Lugmore --> Mental index for Kelley and Lugmore
3. "Hazel" "10 Smaller" "Black" --> Mark fourth/fifth no for Hazel, Mark third/fourth no for Silver (mental reference to clue 1), first/second/third no for Black.
4. "Olga and Orange","Travelore and 40" --> Mark Travelore not fourth, Mental note for Olga, Orange, Travelore related.
5. "Jeffery","Black or Orange" --> Mental note Jeffery/black/orange
6. "Vickie" "isn't" "35" --> Mark Vickie no for third, mark clue completed as I read the next clue.
7. "Pinkster" "15 smaller" "orange" --> these are 3 apart on a 5-deep puzzle, so mark Pinkster no for everything the three bigger sizes and orange no for the 3 smaller sizes. Orange and black must both be in fourth/fifth, mark no for any remaining colors in fourth/fifth, mental reference to clue 5 so Jeffery must by in positions 4/5 and then can mark clue 5 as complete.
8. "Adironda" "10 smaller" "gray" --> gray can't be in first/second position, and we already ruled out fourth/fifth. Therefore Gray is third, Adironda is first, Pinkster is second, orange is fifth, black is fourth, Travelore is fifth, Olga is fourth, Hazel is second, silver is first, Jeffery is fifth, Kelley is third, Lugmore is fourth (glance back to clue three to make sure I got the relationship correct). There's a few remaining that you just need to fill in and you're done.

I just timed the difference between how long it takes me to read vs. scan:
-"The silver pack is 5 liters smaller than Hazel" 2.88s
-"Silver - 5 smaller - Hazel". 1.76s

- "Of Olga's pack and the orange pack, one is made by Travelore and the other is 40 liters." 5.07s
- "Olga and Orange","Travelore and 40" 1.88s


For me, this was basically a one-pass puzzle, where I didn't need to refer back to any of the prior clues as I read down the clue list; once I got to the last clue it all fell into place. I did look back to the Kelley <> Lugmore clue as I was finishing just to make sure I remembered the relationship correctly. 80s to a current record 76s; I probably would have been ~77 if I hadn't taken a screenshot so I could do this write-up.