116 seconds for a logic 4x5 logic puzzle?? HOW???

[tviolet]

One of the things that makes it faster is familiarity with the clues. There aren't that many different scenarios although there are a lot of clue variations so you'll see different versions of the same puzzles multiple times. The very first time you see a puzzle, you may have to spend a little time working out the math. For instance, I think it's the pirate ship one that has the years in 18-year increments. The first time I did it, I was slowed way down working out what 54 years meant, now I just recognize it's three lines difference.

Similarly, there's the one with the deep sea fishes where you need to understand the difference in depths. Or the fossil one that mixes BC dates with "younger"which is kinda confusing the first read through. Or the spelling bee one that uses the length of the words. Once you've done them a few times, you don't have to think much about them. (other than the compass directions one that always makes my head hurt)

I also keep figuring out more "tricks" the more I do them. If I know B is one greater than C and I know B can only be line 2 or line 3, then C can only be line 3 or line 4. Notice that if B = 2 and C = 3 or if B = 3 and C = 4, in both possible scenarios, line 3 is either B or C. Therefore, line 3 cannot equal A, D, or E and I can mark them out. There's lots of things like that that make the puzzles more automatic versus having to puzzle things out individually.

I hope some of this helps y'all, I think the only real secret is just to practice practice practice, the more you do, the faster you'll get!

[ShirleyM]

Thank you for all the comments! I just read the linked post above. I've started using mainly the top row, and my times are now around the average time for a 4x5. I can't imagine getting much faster. Just reading everything and processing it all takes me time. But at least I'm solving them all.

also - start at the bottom of the clues and work up.

[fromalabama]

It has no moral value or bearing on the real world, it's just one of those things.

It doesn't have much bearing on the real world, and my claim here is perhaps anecdotal, but as I progressed to the point where I was able to keep mental track of several clues I noticed that I got better at what you might call situational awareness, most noticeable while driving. My previous job involved a fair amount of interstate travel, and I noticed that I got much better at keeping track of what cars around me were doing, at an almost subconscious level. If I glimpsed a car closing on me in the mirror, and it didn't enter and emerge from my blind spot at the times I was expecting, my "spider sense" started tingling. Possibly it is completely unrelated to the memory skills associated with solving these puzzles rapidly, but it almost felt like a game to me, which is what made me think there was a connection.

[kittyboo]

I just finished a turtle puzzle real fast (76s) because, in my initial skim of the clues, I realised that Yoda had to be 54, thanks to two separate clues putting them at 36 years older and 36 years younger. With that, I could fill in anything related to Yoda, and the other parts just fell into place.

Mind you, if I'd had to check my maths, it would have taken longer. But I've done that puzzle enough to know that 18 is 1 step, 36 is 2 steps, 54 is 3.

Unlike contrary, above, I do read the clues after an initial skim; but that's probably why I'm usually around 100 seconds for a good solve, and contrary has the record on a lot of puzzles.

A good working memory is key to fast times - checking slows you down, but sometimes I will misremember a clue and then I'm out 600s for a bad submit and corrections.

But with practice, and a brain firing on all cylinders, and maybe a little luck in spotting the right clues first... some people can do these super fast. It has no moral value or bearing on the real world, it's just one of those things.

[contrary]

It seems to me that the people doing them in a ridiculous amount of time that really doesn't even allow for reading through the clues must be pausing it. Hit "save progress", read and get a bunch of squares to mark, mark squares, hit "save progress" again and so on.

No, pausing the game doesn't actually stop the timer, just so that people can't cheat in this way.

I don't read the clues. I scan them for keywords - the relationship words and category names.


The last puzzle I did had the following clues:
1. The silver pack is 5 liters smaller than Hazel
2. Kelley's pack isn't made by Lugmor
3. Hazel's pack is 10 liters smaller than the black pack
4. Of Olga's pack and the orange pack, one is made by Travelore and the other is 40 liters.
5. Jeffery's pack is either black or orange
6. Vickie's pack isn't 35 liters
7. The Pinkster pack is 15 liters smaller than the orange pack
8. The Adironda pack is 10 liters smaller than the gray pack.


What I read was:
1. "Silver" "5 Smaller" Hazel --> Without looking at the grid, realize this is the travel pack puzzle - Names in first set, brands in second, colors in third. 5 liter increments. Mark the no in fifth position for Silver and no in first position for Hazel; as I'm doing it note the anchor of 25 as smallest and 45 as largest.
2. "Kelley" "Isn't" "Lugmore --> Mental index for Kelley and Lugmore
3. "Hazel" "10 Smaller" "Black" --> Mark fourth/fifth no for Hazel, Mark third/fourth no for Silver (mental reference to clue 1), first/second/third no for Black.
4. "Olga and Orange","Travelore and 40" --> Mark Travelore not fourth, Mental note for Olga, Orange, Travelore related.
5. "Jeffery","Black or Orange" --> Mental note Jeffery/black/orange
6. "Vickie" "isn't" "35" --> Mark Vickie no for third, mark clue completed as I read the next clue.
7. "Pinkster" "15 smaller" "orange" --> these are 3 apart on a 5-deep puzzle, so mark Pinkster no for everything the three bigger sizes and orange no for the 3 smaller sizes. Orange and black must both be in fourth/fifth, mark no for any remaining colors in fourth/fifth, mental reference to clue 5 so Jeffery must by in positions 4/5 and then can mark clue 5 as complete.
8. "Adironda" "10 smaller" "gray" --> gray can't be in first/second position, and we already ruled out fourth/fifth. Therefore Gray is third, Adironda is first, Pinkster is second, orange is fifth, black is fourth, Travelore is fifth, Olga is fourth, Hazel is second, silver is first, Jeffery is fifth, Kelley is third, Lugmore is fourth (glance back to clue three to make sure I got the relationship correct). There's a few remaining that you just need to fill in and you're done.

I just timed the difference between how long it takes me to read vs. scan:
-"The silver pack is 5 liters smaller than Hazel" 2.88s
-"Silver - 5 smaller - Hazel". 1.76s

- "Of Olga's pack and the orange pack, one is made by Travelore and the other is 40 liters." 5.07s
- "Olga and Orange","Travelore and 40" 1.88s


For me, this was basically a one-pass puzzle, where I didn't need to refer back to any of the prior clues as I read down the clue list; once I got to the last clue it all fell into place. I did look back to the Kelley <> Lugmore clue as I was finishing just to make sure I remembered the relationship correctly. 80s to a current record 76s; I probably would have been ~77 if I hadn't taken a screenshot so I could do this write-up.

[chemwestla]

Thank you for all the comments! I just read the linked post above. I've started using mainly the top row, and my times are now around the average time for a 4x5. I can't imagine getting much faster. Just reading everything and processing it all takes me time. But at least I'm solving them all.

[megirl3]

hello I am a beginner in this game. I haven't had much practice yet. I am not as good but will work on improving. You seem really good at these puzzles. I find even the easy 3x4 grid ones tricky!

[derek]

I have just completed a 4x5 in 95 secs! practice makes perfect

[contrary]

Redlead did a really nice write-up of 4x7 logic process for speed solving in this thread, and I and a few other people added our two cents in there as well.

https://forum.puzzlebaron.com/forum/...uzzles-so-fast

I will second what tviolet says - I do a lot of puzzles. I typically try to do them three at a time in 7-10 minute bursts when I need a break in the workday. Sometimes on the weekends I pop up to 4x6 and 4x7, and I've noticed that I tend to be faster on the 4x5's when I come back to them after doing a larger puzzle.

[tviolet]

I'm not sure the puzzles show different record times for different difficulties, I think difficulty only affects points. I'm pretty sure the low times are mostly done on easy difficulty. I could be wrong but the different difficulties of the same size puzzles seem to have the same record times.

This is not true, the record times are for the selected level of difficulty. I only play "challenging" 4x5 and I occasionally get the record score. I see the same people who frequently get top scores: contrary is up there a lot, blakenagel, gamestar, millie mcgee in 2021, and others I'm spacing on.

I started playing like four or five years ago after thinking "I've always been bad a logic puzzles, I should learn how to do them well" At first I was really really slow, even on the easy ones But I read all the tips on this site and kept at it. Eventually, I got to the point where I was reliably finishing in the "very fast" category. Then around January of 2021, I switched to top row only. It was hard at first and I couldn't have done it when I first started. But once you get the hang of it, it is substantially faster.

The point is the people with the very fast scores do a *lot* of puzzles. I probably play at least five a day and if it's a lazy afternoon when I'm just killing time, I'll probably do twenty. It's just like anything else, the more you do it, the better you'll get. And I'll also add, I have off days when my brain just won't work, being tired or too much sugar can really affect my time.

[fleaball]

It ate the rest of my reply. I’m not saying OP or anyone is dumb, but I do think some people are just better at these than others. Maybe they make connections faster or process the clues differently. Some of the records on challenging level puzzles blow my mind but under 100 seconds for moderate isn’t too wild.

[fleaball]

I'm not sure the puzzles show different record times for different difficulties, I think difficulty only affects points. I'm pretty sure the low times are mostly done on easy difficulty. I could be wrong but the different difficulties of the same size puzzles seem to have the same record times.

Definitely not. I think 70s is the floor for this size puzzle regardless of difficulty, but each level is a unique puzzle with a unique score.

[fiddleback]

I play slowly. I don't mark any square until I know it is correct.

There are many key situations where I have two or three options. I know it would be much quicker to:
-guess and mark a square
-remember that square's position
-continue solving until I hit a contradiction
-click undo until the guess is unmarked
-repeat for another option

Like a maze where you keep testing dead-ends til you find the right path. I don't find it very satisfying, though.

Sure, there are situations that may require a series of guesses, and it may grow confusing to keep track of your "undo" state. But I find that in most puzzles I hit one big snarl and once that is solved everything falls into place. Anyway, maybe the resident wizards are masters of the undo button.

[evessal]

I'm not sure the puzzles show different record times for different difficulties, I think difficulty only affects points. I'm pretty sure the low times are mostly done on easy difficulty. I could be wrong but the different difficulties of the same size puzzles seem to have the same record times.

Interesting. I thought that each different difficulty would be it's own stand-alone puzzle, but what you say would make sense.

[chemwestla]

I'm not sure the puzzles show different record times for different difficulties, I think difficulty only affects points. I'm pretty sure the low times are mostly done on easy difficulty. I could be wrong but the different difficulties of the same size puzzles seem to have the same record times.

I noticed that! I was wondering how the record time seemed to be the same amount of time for the moderate and challenging puzzles.