Fast solvers - any video?!

[Brewer]

I'm amazed at the speed with which some people can complete these puzzles!

I'd love to watch one of these top guns solving in real time, to see if they have developed shortcuts or if they are just doing the same as me at lighting speed.

Is anyone prepared to upload a video, or point me to any that already exist?

[drowso]

I can't fathom it. I've barely managed to enter the information on a touch screen by the times they've finished, let alone calculate further.

[NashvilleSCTheBest]

I’ve thought about doing something like this, but I don’t know how well it would translate. I have a lot of records in 4x6, but a lot of my best rounds I’m not even really thinking, you just get really comfortable and confident with the way things are worded and what the clues eliminate. There’s an element of patterns as well, but I try to disregard that for the sake of being able to enjoy the puzzles; it’s less fun if you realize you’ve seen variations of the same thing before.

another tip I would give is for every answer you get right with full confidence, you should very quickly see how that impacts the remaining clues— but again, if you’re reading and digesting each clue over and over, you’re bleeding the timer, so it’s a balance.

[boxeeboxeebox]

How fast are you looking to go? I can usually hit the "Very Fast" zone for 4x7 Challenging, averaging around 300 seconds, so I'm not the fastest. (That's my best guess; I sometimes go AFK mid-solve so the average time on my profile is much higher.)

With Challenging, there's usually a single "trick" to the puzzle, usually a hidden exclusion (e.g. A is one of X or Y; of B and C, one is W and the other is Z; therefore, A is neither B nor C).

Another trick is being able to work just with the top table grids so that you're not spending time filling in grids that don't contribute to the answer evaluation; sometimes this backfires spectacularly if you don't spot the hidden exclusion and you need to fill in the rest of the grids to figure it out.

Finally, prioritize clues to maximize the number of squares you're crossing out at the start. For me, I look for clues as follows:

1. Explicit confirmations. (Not every puzzle has these.)
2. Explicit exclusions related to the numerical/ordered/left-hand-side value. (These are useful top-grid exclusions.)
3. X is either # or # (ordered values). (These will cross out a bunch of squares at once.)
4. Any other clue related to ordered values. (These are useful, but can be time-consuming.)
5. "The 7 [items] are ..." (This is hit-or-miss. But you'll get a whole set of exclusions and can help you find hidden exclusions.)
6. "X, Y, Z... are all different" (This gives you a good set of exclusions, but is high effort, and the only reason they're this high in priority is because they interact with the following sets of clues.)
7. X is # greater/less than Y. (You should usually be able to get a few things confirmed with this set of clues.)
8. X is greater/less than Y. (Less helpful than ones that give explicit steps of difference, but help with exclusion.)
9. Of X and Y, one is A and the other is B. (If this cannot be easily solved, then the puzzle is going to take longer than expected, since it will most likely require you to consider exclusions outside of the top row of grids.)
10. X is either A or B. (Almost always implies a hidden exclusion.)
11. X is not A. (These are usually "clean-up" rules when you have something confirmed.)

[tviolet]

OK, I actually made a video of me talking through one. I mangle a lot of the words but I tried to explain my process. Hopefully, this helps some to see how you can get faster, I;ve gotten way faster since I started doing puzzles here. I used to take like 15 or 20 min and now I'm usually "very fast"


Video link

https://youtu.be/WXJeu6cFMaU

[ella]

OK, I actually made a video of me talking through one.

Thanks, tviolet! I learned from watching your video. It's good to see how other people approach a puzzle.
I am not at home right now so making a video is beyond my abilities, and I doubt I'd be able to shed much light anyway. I'd love to see more video from other players. Maybe we can start a library.

[tviolet]

Thanks, tviolet! I learned from watching your video. It's good to see how other people approach a puzzle.
I am not at home right now so making a video is beyond my abilities, and I doubt I'd be able to shed much light anyway. I'd love to see more video from other players. Maybe we can start a library.

Oh good, I'm glad you got something out of it. Yes, I'd love to see how other fast solvers work, I'm sure we all approach it differently.

[Brewer]

Thanks tviolet, that was really interesting! I've been doing these kinds of puzzles for decades, but never with speed in mind, and always using the entire grid.

Clearly filling out only the upper tier is a game changer!

[tviolet]

Thanks tviolet, that was really interesting! I've been doing these kinds of puzzles for decades, but never with speed in mind, and always using the entire grid.

Clearly filling out only the upper tier is a game changer!

Oh great, I'm glad you found it interesting. Top row only totally was a game changer, when I got it down, I easily dropped 40-50 seconds off my scores. I'd already worked up to reliably finishing at the bottom of very fast, top row only pushed me into the middle of very fast. It seemed like an impossible task when I first tried it but it was advice other fast solvers offered and I figured, I know I'm not dumb, surely I can get it too so I kept at it.

I think using top row only helps develop your ability to hold info in your head and makes the relationships between the clues easier to spot.

[Brewer]

Something still isn't adding up for me.

I'm currently playing 4x4 easy, to explore this top row technique and improve speed.

Some puzzles are great, with simple clues that can be executed at high speed in just one or two passes. I just played a 'centenarians' one that I completed in 60s, with the record being 50s (by fromalabama).

The next puzzle was a 'digital cameras' one that took several passes through the clues to complete. Even working at the same pace It took me 143s, yet the record was 53s (also by fromalabama).

How can the record times be so close for puzzles that are so different to complete?

[Brewer]

I think I'm declaring shenanigans.

How the hell can anybody do this in 70 seconds?

1. The wine from Goose Lake vineyard was bottled 4 years before the syrah.
2. The Ece Suss wasn't bottled at Vinalhaven vineyard.
3. The chardonnay, the Luzagueil, and the wine from Apple Valley vineyard are three different wines.
4. Of the wine from Goose Lake vineyard and the chardonnay, one is the Zifennwein and the other was bottled in 1996.
5. The bottle from Apple Valley vineyard is either the 1996 wine or the syrah.
6. The Friambliss is either the wine from Goose Lake vineyard or the bottle from Apple Valley vineyard.
7. The riesling was bottled 8 years before the Ece Suss.

[NashvilleSCTheBest]

I think I'm declaring shenanigans.

How the hell can anybody do this in 70 seconds?

1. The wine from Goose Lake vineyard was bottled 4 years before the syrah.
2. The Ece Suss wasn't bottled at Vinalhaven vineyard.
3. The chardonnay, the Luzagueil, and the wine from Apple Valley vineyard are three different wines.
4. Of the wine from Goose Lake vineyard and the chardonnay, one is the Zifennwein and the other was bottled in 1996.
5. The bottle from Apple Valley vineyard is either the 1996 wine or the syrah.
6. The Friambliss is either the wine from Goose Lake vineyard or the bottle from Apple Valley vineyard.
7. The riesling was bottled 8 years before the Ece Suss.

I don't normally play 4x4 or easy, but i wanted to test your theory.

I did 3 and my times were 62, 59, 71.

Seems pretty consistent...the clues, particularly to someone that's been doing these puzzles for speed for a while, generally seem to get you to a solution pretty quickly.

[grimmgiraffe]

The puzzles that are harder to do with just the top rows (because I tried it for a challenge, too) are the ones that you have to Remember more. They the ones with process of elimination, and things that you find out match but can't put in just the top, so you have to put them in you brain. lol There's a reason for the whole chart. It's to write down all those yes and no's. When you're only using the top of the chart, you have to store some of it in your memory.

Some puzzles the clues are given so that you'd be filling in more of the bottom of the chart right off. Some are more on the top of the chart. That's what makes some of them harder to do with just the top. I think those clues that cancel each other out, the process of elimination clues are the ones that people have been saying "you learn the patterns."