Any tips for getting faster at X steps after/before clues?

[JoshGrams]

This is an extreme example but I'm still slow at these where the ordering constraints (X is 1 before Y, Z is 2 after x) interact. Writing out the orderings often helps but that's slow too. How do people think about these or hold them in their heads? I guess I just need to sit down and practice.

So here, for instance, we have clues 5 and 9 give us Denise, Almerini/seventh. They're both written in the same order (X is 1 longer than Denise) so I can handle those OK. Ditto clues 6 and 7 give us Ronald, somebody, Zachary, Nick. And clues 8 and 10 give us second, Condini, sixth.

But then my brain is just kinda overloaded. And... hmm. Yeah. I guess I kinda overlooked clue 1 (Nick is sixth) because it seemed too simple and often those ones end up last. And actually that instinct is good for clue 2 (Otis isn't Manzella), which fills in the last square at the very end. Ah, but those are usually negative, and clue one is positive, giving you a connection. Yeah. I'm just having trouble holding all nine items in three chains in my head, so I missed that Nick/sixth ties two of them together. OK, I can work on that.

So then equating Nick/sixth means working backwards to get Ronald, second, Zachary/Condini, Nick/sixth. Geez, six pieces in a single chain of four. That feels like a lot. So I can work on getting better at that. Because if I really put that together solidly then it'll be more clear that second has a bunch of possible students ruled out: can't be Ronald, Zachary, or Nick, so that just leaves Denise or Otis. And Denise is in a chain, can she be second? Denise/second would be followed both by Almerini/seventh and Zachary/Condini, so that's a conflict with Almerini/Condini. Then it all falls out, because we have a whole chain of students: Ronald, Otis, Zachary, Nick.

But it took me forever to get to that point. So I guess my two weak spots are:

Noticing that we've ruled out all but two of something; can we rule out one more? As in "second can't be Ronald/Zachary/Nick" here.

And matching up the orderings for conflicts: I still often have to painstakingly work those out by hand, especially when sometimes the clues are worded in the opposite order ("after" vs. "before") or when there are lots of clues like this puzzle. How do you quickly remember which ones cause conflicts, and which ones don't so you should be looking for another connection before they'll give you a deduction? Or is it just more practice?

[altana]

I definitely don't hold them in my head all at the same time or make chains like you're describing. That seems like a lot of work to me.





Here's my strategy for solving puzzles in general:

• (Steps 3 and 6 speak to your actual question, sorry for all the rest of it)
• Caveats: (1) I play for speed, and (2) I don't mind filling in the grid as much as needed to get the answer ASAP. I know not everyone plays the same way.

1. Find the long clue. This is the one that says, "A, B, C, D, and E are all different people" or "The seven people are _____". There isn't always a clue like this, but if there is, I put in all the X'es that that clue provides first, while the grid is empty. Then get rid of that clue... you have extracted all the info you can get from it, so get it out of your way.

2. Go through and do all the short clues. "Nick finished in sixth place", "Fred doesn't use red darts," "Nellie is from Decatur," etc. Put in the X'es or O's where appropriate. Get rid of all those clues as you finish them... you have extracted all the info you can get from them, so get them out of your way. At this point I also do the "X is either A or B" clues. If "Blake is either the diver from Brunei or the diver who reached 104 meters", then Brunei can't be 104 meters. Mark the X.

3. Go through and do all the "step" clues. "Zachary had to spell a word that was 1 letter shorter than the one given to Nick," etc. These are the ones you seem to be struggling with, I think? On that particular clue, you know Zachary can't be the longest word (put an X in Zachary/elucidated), and Nick can't be the shortest word (put an X in Nick/anemic). Then clue 6, "Zachary's word is 2 letters longer than Ronald's word" means Zachary can't be the shortest two words (anemic, bulwark) and Ronald can't be the longest THREE words (since we already know that Zachary can't be elucidated, that means Ronald can't be consomme). So Ronald is now A or B, Zachary is now C or D, and Nick (because of Clue 7) is D or E. As it happens, in this particular puzzle, you can even go one step further -- since you know that Nick and Zachary are 1 apart, and Zachary can only be C (meaning that Nick is D) or D (meaning that Nick is E), D has to be either Zachary or Nick. So you can mark an X for Denise/duplicity and Otis/duplicity. (This last part took me many, many puzzles to figure out!)

4. This leaves you with the "of the" clues. "Of Mary and the child in 4th place, one wore blue and one is from Yucca Valley", etc. You know that Mary can't be 4th (mark an x), and blue can't be Yucca Valley (mark an X). Often by this point in the solve, these clues will solve themselves (example: if you already know from previous clues that Mary wore red, then she has to be from Yucca Valley, which means blue is 4th place). If you can SOLVE an "of the" clue, then get rid of it so it doesn't waste your time anymore. If it isn't solved yet, keep it hanging around until it is.

5. Alternate between repeating the remaining "step" clues and the remaining "of the" clues until the puzzle is complete. Usually step 3 gives you enough info to finish step 4, but if it doesn't, use the results of step 4 to repeat step 3, and on and on.

6. If, and only if, you have used all of your "step" clues and all of your "of the" clues at least twice and haven't solved the whole puzzle yet, THEN AND ONLY THEN pair the step clues like you are describing. I leave this for absolute last because I find it to be the hardest and slowest strategy for my brain, so I don't bother with it until I absolutely have to. I go through the clues and look for things that are the same "step distance" away from each other to compare to each other. "Seventh place is one down from Denise" (clue 5), "Zachary is one up from Nick" (clue 7), "Almerini is one down from Denise" (clue 9), and "second is one up from Condini" (clue 10) can all be compared to each other.

I mentally reorder the clues so they're in up-down order, like so:
Clue 5: Denise -> seventh
Clue 7: Zachary -> Nick
Clue 9: Denise -> Almerini
Clue 10: Second -> Condini


I then compare the clues pairwise. From those clues, here's the info I gain:
Clues 5 and 7: Nick isn't seventh (because Denise and Zachary are different students)
Clues 5 and 9: Almerini IS seventh (because both are 1 down from Denise. Usually I spot these kinds of pairs of clues early on in the puzzle and take care of them, getting rid of one of the two clues since it's redundant to have both once you've made the Almerini=seventh connection)
Clues 5 and 10: No information, unless we already know that Denise can't be second or Condini can't be seventh

Clues 7 and 9: Nick isn't Almerini
Clues 7 and 10: No information, unless I already know Zachary isn't second or Nick isn't Condini

Clues 9 and 10: Denise isn't second (because Almerini and Condini are different teachers)


If there are multiple "two steps away", "three steps away" clues, I compare those to each other in the same fashion. You seem to be trying to do this in your head with all of the step clues at once... that sounds very, very hard to me.

7. You are probably done with the puzzle by NOW. But if not, then repeat step 5 as much as needed, and step 6 only if you gain new information that solves one part of those clues.





Following this strategy, I land consistently in the "very fast" category and have clocked a few records as well (so far, anyway). If other people have commentary, I would love to hear it... I'm always looking to get better.