Comments

[mpd]

Or it could be that MPD is simply a person who is very, very good at word games and has played games like this one for years already. There wouldn't be a learning curve, then. You simply don't know. I DO know that it's possible to use computer help to improve your scores so they look possible, but almost unattainable. Someone bent on cheating, who thinks that putting something over on a pack of nerds is high entertainment, would do something like that. And would define "nerds" any way he liked, too. But we don't know that's what's going on. MPD could be a real, honest, very good player who is very upset that people would call him a cheater for simply being good. If I were that good, I would deny cheating and be really angry about it and it would probably ruin the game for me. You may want to consider that.

This was a breath of fresh air. Though accusations at this point don't really bother me as much as they used to. The need for validation, or to 'prove' myself, to various trolls and skeptics, is also fairly minimal. Wordtwist, and word games more generally, are fun diversions that I happen to be comparatively very good at, that I can continue to improve at, and that is enough for me. Unless admin asks for a video, I won't be making one.

Fairly minimal does not, however, mean nonexistent. For this talk of mysteries, there seems to be a lack of actual sleuthing. I guess it's a lot easier to lampoon someone or to provoke in bad faith than to do any legwork or to engage with some civility. This may be somewhat contradictory to my sentiments above, but I'll give some context for anyone following along in the larger community here and to help out our junior detectives. The M stands for Mitch, which some may recognize from other sites - Wordracer and Tangle going back to the late 90's, Bitwordy, Prolific, and Wordament. I've probably spent the most time at Serpentine, playing 5's as Paco for the last decade and a half. One would also recognize this handle from Aerolith, a very useful site to learn anagrams (and the vastness of the Collins dictionary as I've been finding out). I would imagine I've got my 10,000 hours in at this point and my scores, I feel, reflect that effort.

Now, this is pretty unrelated, but I thought I'd add a couple comments I have about Wordtwist after having now played a decent number of games:

- The lack of a word list at the end of the game is bemusing to me - this makes learning and incorporating UR words much more difficult (esp. those not found in Collins) - I think someone may have mentioned adding one as a premium feature which I also think would be a good idea.
- Recycling boards prior to 40 plays due to scoring 700/1000+ - this also is a bit of a headscratcher. I feel like it's there as a measure to prevent replay abuse, but if you really wanted to (and you'd have to really want to) get around it you could anyway. I'm not exactly sure how the recycling mechanic works, but prematurely doing so based on score robs players of an opportunity to learn from other top players who regularly surpass those limits and is somewhat stifling to friendly competition, which, I confess, I do enjoy.
- I wonder what people would think of a 'daily board' that would reroll like wordle/squaredle etc. that people could play once each day. Could potentially lead to some abuse with multiple ids, but it could be fun?
- I'm impressed with the prompt involvement by Admin, and updates to the game and dictionary are welcome, most similar word games in my experience tend to get neglected over time.

[Naboka]

No doubt that you're an excellent player. Sports are filled with excellent players who just needed that little extra to make them great. Like Armstrong and Bonds.

Curious what chubtrub means.

That you would be indignant over anyone doubting your performance isn't unexpected. Every courtroom in America overflows with indignant defendents. A small percentage are even innocent.

That you don't understand that scepticism speaks loudly.

The world around us is filled with scammers. Wordtwist has had it's personal parade. Probably every other game site has. With computer assistance so easily attained, good players can become great; great players become unbeatable. And even poor players can shine.

Yet, somehow scepticism isn't warranted when someone shows up beating Megaword's scores as if they were nothing?

How dare we doubt!!!

Much like the cheating husband angered that his wife would be so deranged as to suspect him.

When I woke up this morning, the streets were soaked. I surmised that it had rained. Didn't actually see it rain. Didn't hear it. Just had evidence that it had. Maybe trucks filled with water came up our street and sprayed thousands of gallons. Maybe an alien spacecraft dumped unknown liquids on us. Maybe....

But I'll stick with the rain assumption.

A basketball coach gets to choose which player shoot free throws when the other team has a technical foul. He has players who shoot anywhere from 33% to 92%. The 92% shooter very well might miss both shots. The 33% shooter might very well have hit both. But odds are odds. Which one do you think he puts on the line?

The odds.

The odds of someone who has never ventured into Wordtwist suddenly appearing and making Megaword look second rate are pretty remote. Such a person would arrive with a jaw-dropping vocabulary. The need to stalk elite player's games "to find words" is a real head scratcher. Such a player wouldn't have to do that. Period. Such a player would be dropping words that the rest of us hadn't seen. Such a player, with decades of word-play experience would be cognizant of the diminishing returns of word searches.

He'd be capable of finding the words on the board. Not dependent on post game readouts.

About the only thing post game readouts do for me is make me slap my head over things I already knew but missed. I'm not dependent on readouts to get better. And I'm certainly not in the over-1,000-points-a-game league.

The best players add to the game. They come to the game with knowledge that the rest of us can learn from. The odds of them depending on other players to learn words defies the odds. I seriously doubt that any of the elite players here are scouring other people's games to "find words." They've got plenty of words to play at an elite level. They don't need the work of others to improve their games. They aren't parasitic. They play the games not the players--because they aren't dependent on "learning new words" to improve their game.

And such a player, who has spent decades playing word games would have experienced numerouos incidents of new players suddenly appearing and blowing everyone away, obviously with some sort of computer assistance. It just goes with the territory.

The early history of Wordtwist contains players who never missed a word. Never. But that was a red flag. So players so inclined learned to modify their approach an "miss" words. The scammers of the world are constantly learning and adjusting. Scammers and con artists learn how to get us to believe they really, really are not trying to cheat us.

It's the world we live in.

So, such a player (an honest player) would understand the scepticism.

With the crude program my brother in law set up I could easily blow everyone here out of the water. Finding or developing those programs is apparently very, very easy. You input the words and voila, you're unbeatable. The program remembers all the words you input.

The human brain, however, isn't quite as reliable. We input, it misplaces. (I don't think I've ever played a game where I didn't wonder how in the hell I missed that word.)

That you've spent decades playing word games and never played Wordtwist...

But, hey, trucks loaded with water could have soaked the streets outside.

Sorry, but the contradictions and inconsistencies here outweigh the explanation.

I would ask that you forgive my sketicism, but how dare I?!!!

Right?

How dare any of us?!!!!

How dare any of us question

in a world filled with questions

in a world filled with dishonesty.

How dare we

question.

[Naboka]

Just ran across this example of why we question.

Screen Shot 2024-06-08 at 4.35.58 PM.png

asdf used to put out perfect or near perfect boards for the short time he/she played here. With the expanded word base, new words were added to boards so this wouldn't be perfect any more. An extra 5-7 new words added isn''t extraordinary for a small board like this.

It's not that accomplishing a perfect board is impossible. Nor even improbable. It's the machinelike constancy.

Surprised their boards are still floating around. But I see them occaisionally, along with others like asdf who did the same stuff around that time.

I've always wondered whether it was the same few peole returning over and over. Once you've been bitten by the rush... Just ask a serial killer. The addiction. The RUSH.

Once you've got the means, you just need the opportunity--if you're motivated by whatever floats your thrill boat.

It's not because there are a bunch of pouty whiners here who hate seeing anyone better than them. It's a persistent problem. Like dandelions. Weeds. They just come back.

However, on the plus side, having someone recirculate boards faster provides increased opportunities for long/best word players to take another record. There's a bit of a thrill playing pristine or near pristine boards.

So, not being in competition for best of anything here, IDGAF whether players are legit or not. It's just that I'm not inclined to call an avocado a pomegranite if looks and feels like a pomegranite. Someone would have to slice it open and make guac to convince me otherwise. Though pomegranites masquerading as avocadoes carries an amusement factor.

That said, I hope you stay. Not because I believe you. Just because I love seeing more recycled boards pop up. Benefits my selfish self a lot.

And it saves the confusions attendant with reincarnation.

[mpd]

OK. Right. Sports analogies. Wordtwist is, in fact, not like professional sports whatsoever, whereby competitive advantage potentially comes with millions of dollars in contracts and endorsements. People care about sports. This is a niche, online word game with little to no significance other than to those that play it, a small community. Cheating at such a game is beyond pointless, as anyone who has spent much time playing here would undoubtedly agree. Cheaters come in as a bit of a joke, are usually pretty snarky about it, get bored, and leave not long after showing up. I've been playing these games a long time, I've developed friendships through them, and continue to enjoy playing and improving at them. There is a certain mutual respect that comes with knowing the people who engage in similar pursuits, which I feel is present in the other communities where I have traditionally played. You could ask around if you so chose, though I'm not holding my breath.

I'm 'new' here, a relative unknown quantity, if you can say that after playing several thousands of games. Without familiarity being established, sure, if you've never left the confines of Wordtwist, you might think that my scores are highly suspicious. I'm not upset there is doubt, that is more or less expected. I also don't feel like I've been indignant about this (despite you trying to put words into my mouth). What upsets me more are the actions you've taken as a result of your doubt. You have compared me in separate posts to termites, cheating husbands, Gollum, worms, weeds, and con artists, and extrapolated that to my personality being one morally bankrupt unconcerned with fairness and consumed with self-delusion. All this based on nothing more than your own amateur psychoanalysis of someone you have never met, someone who has done you no wrong, and without ever engaging with them with any measure of decorum. You seem to have developed some respect from some other users here, excuse me if I reserve mine.

[Naboka]

Interesting how individuals project themselves into things that weren't about them.

Maybe why lawyers don't let their clients get on the stand.

Fun story: was at a big gun store that had a sale on H&K VP9 tacticals. (a high end 9 mm pistol for those who don't know.) While waiting for my number to be called got into a conversation with some of the other guys. Suddenly one started ranting about the price of gas soaring to $7 a gallon because of Biden's policies. We all looked at him. Asked him several questions, like where did you get gas last, what was the price, why don't he look at the price of gas in the station across the road. He refused to answer any of that, just got more and more angry. Suddenly, he burst out, "You need to get your heads out of your A$$es and look at what's really going o!!!!!. Then stormed off. We looked at each other. Hmmm. Moved us up one person in line.

But, crazy how that guy so passionately believed the price of gas in town was $7 when it was selling for under $3 most places in town. And he had to have purchased gas to be driving around.

(And yes, I bought the gun. And yes the salesman had a good laugh about the $7 gas story.)

Another fun story: there's a guy at the gym who claims to have been in combat in the Iraq and Afghanistan Loves to regale people with the horrors and bravery of having served in combat. Has even started earning medals for his service. Too bad his sister (who also works out there) spilled the beans. He served as an administrative clerk who never got closer to the Middle East than Germany, where he was actually stationed. Even though he knows she knows this, he still tries fabricating those stories to her. And he's actually starting to think about applying for benefits for being PTSD from his combat experiences. That's gonna be interesting.

And yes, he''s mostly a normal guy who's pleasant enough to be around.

Either one of them could probably have passed a polygraph on those things.

You just never know what goes on in the minds of others. The things they believe about themselves. The things they believe about others.

We're all big messes.

Yearly, kindergarteners will come crying that Johnny said they were this or that. I always ask them, "what if I said that wall is pink?" "No!" they protest. "It's white." "What if I said you had horns and eat cockroaches?" "NOOOOOO!!!" "So, you know what is true and not?" "Yes." "And were the things Johnny said about you true?" "No" "Then Johnny is mistaken isn't he?" By the end of the year all of them have thicker skins and could care less what classmates say about them. To the degree 6 yo's can.

Was it Groucho Marx who said something about not wanting to belong to a club that would have him as a member? Like Groucho, I find myself lacking in so many ways. I'm a pretty reprehensible guy in so many ways. It's a miracle anyone can stand me at all. When I reach purgatory, whoever's doing records will probably give me a sour look and say, "Mitch didn't respect you. You're going to hell." And I'll think of all the fun things I did to get sent there and hope more's on the way.

You're right not to hold your breath about checking you out. If you looked good in a bikini I might, but I'm not going to take the time to research how wonderful you've been on other sites. Plate's a little full. But, if you want to post clippings here about all those things-- along with extolling praise from all your good friends on other sites that would probably go a long way.

Sometimes friends grumble about wanting to get divorced. I always tell them they'd better realize they will take their same baggage into the next relationship. Better to become self aware and stop blaming others. Understanding goes a long way in this messy process of living. What one does here is most likely what one does elsewhere. Tigers may not be able to change their stripes, but self-examination makes change possible for people.

Lucky us.

[Naboka]

Before this all gets even more ponderously silly, we should take a deep breath and reflect on the lyrics of The Trashmen's class Surfin Bird.


Screen Shot 2024-06-08 at 10.32.35 PM.png




Screen Shot 2024-06-08 at 10.32.59 PM.png


There. Now we can return to being full of ourselves and how serious everything is and how important every dust mote is and how the universe will utterly change if a butterfly flaps its wing the wrong way and how much more important 733 is than 732.

pa pa oom m-mow
everybody knows that the bird is the word

Sometimes the world is so friggin hilarious. God must have invented humans for a good laugh.

[crazykate]

Before anyone gets hurt or offended by words spoken in anger or resentment, more than they've already been, let's take a step back instead of doubling down.
A lot of new players and/or strategies have been greeted by accusations of cheating in this forum.
To me, being so far away from being in direct competition with the best players, the difference between actual cheats and people who were just extremely good at Wordtwist has always been how they interact with other players. And I think that mpd proved his willingness to communicate by starting this thread. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt.

[RussDNails]

OK. Right. Sports analogies. Wordtwist is, in fact, not like professional sports whatsoever, whereby competitive advantage potentially comes with millions of dollars in contracts and endorsements. People care about sports. This is a niche, online word game with little to no significance other than to those that play it, a small community. Cheating at such a game is beyond pointless, as anyone who has spent much time playing here would undoubtedly agree. Cheaters come in as a bit of a joke, are usually pretty snarky about it, get bored, and leave not long after showing up. I've been playing these games a long time, I've developed friendships through them, and continue to enjoy playing and improving at them. There is a certain mutual respect that comes with knowing the people who engage in similar pursuits, which I feel is present in the other communities where I have traditionally played. You could ask around if you so chose, though I'm not holding my breath.

I'm 'new' here, a relative unknown quantity, if you can say that after playing several thousands of games. Without familiarity being established, sure, if you've never left the confines of Wordtwist, you might think that my scores are highly suspicious. I'm not upset there is doubt, that is more or less expected. I also don't feel like I've been indignant about this (despite you trying to put words into my mouth). What upsets me more are the actions you've taken as a result of your doubt. You have compared me in separate posts to termites, cheating husbands, Gollum, worms, weeds, and con artists, and extrapolated that to my personality being one morally bankrupt unconcerned with fairness and consumed with self-delusion. All this based on nothing more than your own amateur psychoanalysis of someone you have never met, someone who has done you no wrong, and without ever engaging with them with any measure of decorum. You seem to have developed some respect from some other users here, excuse me if I reserve mine.

I almost hate to jump into this but mpd is clearly legit. His scores are achievable with a good vocabulary and typing skills. I've been on here for many years and seen the patterns that always follow true cheating. And cheaters rarely respond to any posts here. mpd has no obligation to any of us to defend himself but has politely and quite eloquently offered an honest assessment of his history and abilities. The person who accused him of cheating seems to have disappeared from the chat entirely. IMHO an apology is in order.

[JJBeanie]

I totally agree, RussDNails.

[Naboka]

I almost hate to jump into this but mpd is clearly legit. His scores are achievable with a good vocabulary and typing skills. I've been on here for many years and seen the patterns that always follow true cheating. And cheaters rarely respond to any posts here. mpd has no obligation to any of us to defend himself but has politely and quite eloquently offered an honest assessment of his history and abilities. The person who accused him of cheating seems to have disappeared from the chat entirely. IMHO an apology is in order.

Pretty sure he's talking to me here, not the person who openly accused him of cheating. Not sure I would deem an apology necessary. There may be disagreements, but the jury's still out here, and even then, juries sometimes get it wrong.

Doesn't take long being on the internet to realize people do the craziest things for reasons that make absolutely no sense to us. To most of us, a rational person wouldn't do such and such because we wouldn't. But we're not inside their brains. We don't know what drives them. We aren't privy to irrational obsessions. We aren't privy to the capacity of a particular person's mind that assigns distorted values to whatever. You find some CEO of a major company is secretly obsessed with biker gangs taking a dump on him. Makes no sense. He's such a smart charismatic guy. Why in the world would he have such "desires?"

What does a person value? And what are they willing to do to attain what they value.

Sports figures may make millions and have millions at stake with their performance, but money isn't the only value out there. Money in and of itself is valueless. Just look at what happened in the Weimar Republic, where a wheel barrow full of cash couldn't buy you a loaf of bread. Even jewels are just rocks. They have no inherent value. All the value anything has is what we assign it.

We tend to pour our time and energy into what we value. And sometimes those values get obsessive and distorted.

One of the most frustrating things in the world is to almost get something. To be far away from achieving something doesn't frustrate us much. But to almost? It can be maddening.

If a person spends decades doing something, he/she values that thing. If a person spends decades almost attaining what they want most, the frustration can be horrible. If you're almost the best and desperately want to be the best finding a means to be the best can gain more and more value.

We tell each other little white lies because ... it just seems right. We tell ourselves little white lies because... it's easier to live with ourselves. The clerk gives us back too much change and we're short on money, it just seems fair that we have that money instead of the big corporation.

Our minds can justify absolutely anything. History is filled with the horrors of justified actions. And a lot of those who carried out horrible crimes could be polite and charming and reasonable. It's simply that they were able to justify their actions.

I have no doubts that players exist who can achieve mpd's scores honestly. Even Megaword realizes that his game has flaws which keep his scores lower than they could be. Records are made to be broken and someone always seems to come along eventually to break them.

All of us are full of inconsistencies and contradictions. Inconsistencies and contradictions might gainsay nothing. Or might speak loudly.

To me, there are inconsistencies and contradictions here. I've enumerated some. Does that mean he's cheating? Not necessarily. But enough to make me skeptical. And we all have the right to be skeptical. No one else can shame us because we doubt the truth of something they believe to be true.

I was getting lumber at Home Depot yesterday and a guy pulls over in the parking lot with his family. While in his car, he shows me a fancy ring, tells me a story about losing his wallet and needing cash. Maybe he actually did lose his wallet and most of us need cash... But, did I believe him? He seemed really nice. He had cute kids. I wouldn't have minded giving him twenty bucks just because. But, something just wasn't right.

Bernie Madoff was a chaming guy. Convinced a lot of savy people of his legitimacy. A very, very nice guy by all accounts. Very communicative. Very convincing. Surely he wouldn't...

Being nice and communicating prove very little.

Do I know if anyone is cheating in the game? With 100% certainty? Nope. Maybe unbeatable and asdf had eidetic memories and getting perfect scores was part of their skill sets.

Am I going to buy a ring just because someone is polite and convincing?

Am I going to doubt unbeatable and asdf's scores? You betcha.

The world is filled with all manner of events and issues that cover the spectrum from very bad to very good. This entire issue being discussed here is no more important than a single mosquito amongst all the living creatures that exist. When we ride our bikes on the trail, mosquitos swarm us when we stop. The trail runs along a small river. Lots of them critters. For a brief moment, we have to deal with buzzing and the attempted feedings. Then we get on our bikes and ride on. Mosquitos can't even fly 2 miles per hour and we average 15.

When we get home none of us talks about the mosquitos because they're irrelevant. Much like this issue here. Completely without importance in our daily lives.

For a moment, we might feel elated to have accomplished some goal here with this game. But in the outside world, no one cares. Let me repeat that: no one cares. A particular player might care enough to spend ungodly numbers of hours here. But in the real world no one cares. No one values what goes on here. It's not important.

But, to some players what goes on here is the bread and butter of their existence. Being a noted player can be the crux of their identity. It's a thing they value greatly. And that's perfectly fine. It's no worse than an artist who spends thousands of hours painting works that no one else wants. As long as a person enjoys what they're doing and sees benefit...

Just saying.

There are far, far more important things to spend our time with.

Such as: there are far more important things for me to do than posting here. Makes me wonder why I waste time doing it when the opportunity cost is so great.

Sigh.

Guess I'll reevaluate and attempt to make wiser decisions about time allocation.

Tempest in a teapot.

Guess posting here demostrates once again my tendency towards obsessive and irrational behavior. What a shock. What a come-to-Jesus moment. Gonna have to fix that.

Hallelujah.

Where's that motorcycle gang?

Arrivederci, Roma.

[RussDNails]

Nope Naboka, my post was really directed at the person accusing mpd of cheating. He called him out and when a polite and civilized reply was posted he disappeared. Accusations of cheating really seem to be a hot button topic here and I agree, it sucks to see some loser write a program and rack up unattainable scores. It’s always quite clear when this happens and the admin is pretty quick to blot these morons out. I don’t normally post a lot, I just enjoy coming here to play but it seemed really unfair to call out a perfectly legit player putting up scores at the higher end of the spectrum. Mention was made of a “learning curve” and mpd clearly explained that he’s been playing online word games for years honing his craft. Good enough for me. No disrespect toward you was meant at all.

[Brisul]

I almost hate to jump into this but mpd is clearly legit. His scores are achievable with a good vocabulary and typing skills. I've been on here for many years and seen the patterns that always follow true cheating. And cheaters rarely respond to any posts here. mpd has no obligation to any of us to defend himself but has politely and quite eloquently offered an honest assessment of his history and abilities. The person who accused him of cheating seems to have disappeared from the chat entirely. IMHO an apology is in order.

No, I was in a different chat. I stand by what I said because his scores are super fishy.

[Naboka]

Nope Naboka, my post was really directed at the person accusing mpd of cheating. He called him out and when a polite and civilized reply was posted he disappeared. Accusations of cheating really seem to be a hot button topic here and I agree, it sucks to see some loser write a program and rack up unattainable scores. It’s always quite clear when this happens and the admin is pretty quick to blot these morons out. I don’t normally post a lot, I just enjoy coming here to play but it seemed really unfair to call out a perfectly legit player putting up scores at the higher end of the spectrum. Mention was made of a “learning curve” and mpd clearly explained that he’s been playing online word games for years honing his craft. Good enough for me. No disrespect toward you was meant at all.

No disrespect felt.

You ever get in a spat with the spouse that escalates quickly into nuclear confrontation? Then after the raging subsides you wonder where in the world did that come from. And it's often about something absolutely irrelevant and silly?

I wondered about all this discussion and it traces back months ago to anomolies I witnessed and grew curious about. I'd gotten pretty decent at this game. Good enough that I was finding games where Megaword had played against me and gotten most words but not most points. There would be days when I wouldn't lose any best scores in the personal records. Days.

Then, suddenly, I was losing 4, 6, 8, 10,12 a day. Hmm, me thinks. Something's amiss. Was it the system glitch that sometimes adds 20 longest word records overnight when you haven't played a single game?

So I started tracking who was online when the records disappeared. And it was mpd. Then I started tracking how many game records I lost against how many games he played. It was consistently 18-25% of his games.

In all your years of playing, who have you played 20% of your games day after day after day? Pretty statistically damning.

A few months ago the clan celebrated my sister's 80th birthday. Big deal with all the kids, grandkids, great grandkids attending. Lot of very attractive females in those younger echelons. And during the various conversations the subject of cyberstalking came up. Every single one of those girls had been the victim of cyberstalking. My son's financee is working on her doctorate in clinical psychology. So, as is our wont, we got discussing the psychology of stalkers. What makes them tick. She indicated that stalkers often suffer from self delusion and therapy doesn't work well. You have to be honest and willing to look for therapy to work. But, stalkers tend to be flawed and dishonest. Ergo, no soup for them.

This coincided with the time I suddenly found a fellow player "stalking" my games. Maybe an unjust appraisal, but certainly fitting the pattern. Twenty percent of a person's games played against one player?!

So I provoked a conversation. It wasn't a willingly offered conversation. It was purposely provoked. The argument that these are willing postings falls flat.

His response was a flippant dismissal about my "precious records." He offered that since he considered that I had the largest UR word vocablulary he was trying to learn new words from my games. He also indicated that 5/5 was his preferred game. On the surface, that seemed logical, but really, does a player with decades of word experience need to stalk any other player's games to find words? A person with that much skill and experience will have a stockpile of words that may need tweaking, but certainly won't require that kind of excess.

To me the entire thing was a bit creepy. I wondered what really lay behind that necessity to play 20% of his games against me. Certainly not a normal motivation. There are bunches of players with huge vocabularies here and he wasn't playing 20% of his games against them. And it's not because I have more records popping up on boards to be played. I'll consistently run across 3 boards in a row where the same player has most points. Sometimes I don't even see a single game with my records in a day. How many games do you have to skip through to find 12 or more of my games to play? As a test, I skipped throuugh 157 this morning before I found one. Not that that's a valid sampling of anything, but I'm certainly not going to waste hours seeing how many games I have to skip through to find 12 to arrive at a statistical norm.

Just ask yourself what you would think if some player were doing this to you? You have as large a vocabulary as I do. Would you simply think it's normal behavior? Or would you wonder about what's motivating that player?

I think mpd is also chubtrub. I think chubtrub's scores are more indicatitive of his skill level. Though initially chubtrub scored over 13oo points in a 4x4 game before backing off. So he has access to whatever enables such high skills.

Sorry, but there are just too many niggling inconsistencies and contradictions for me to not be sceptical.

I would love for him to be an honest player putting up valid scores. What a thrill to have a hero. But, the 20% stalking rate reeks of something else. And the explanation of looking to expand one's word base just falls short if we're talking about someone with enough mastery of the game that they can average over 1700 point on 5x5 and 1100 in 4x4. Do you think it's likely that chess Grand Masters are hanging around high school chess matches to discover new lines of attack? If they are, it's either they aren't really Grand Masters or they're interested in something other than the chess.

I've had someone staring at me for months and it's just....creepy.

And I'm sure there are all manner of "explanations". "Oh, you looked like a friend I had." But day after day, week after week? After a while the explanations seem more like cover stories than honest answers.

And, accordng to my maybe someday daughter in law, you're not going to get honest answers. Even when the explanations seem convincing.

Any successful con artist can spin whatever story is necessary to sell you on his scam. So, good explanations might give you confidence that the con is on the up and up, but... that's the point. Confidence. Belief.

And we all want to believe.

I don't buy the explanation that because he isn't earning money playing this game it's not the same as sports. Value is value. You don't spend entire days on things that have no value to you.

But, as I said before, this is a tempest in a teapot. Just wanted to voice why I personally distrust him. Probably none of you were being stalked so you lack that viewpoint. His scornful dismissals have the flavor of someone who's contemptuous of others. Someone who easily justifies whatever he does without regard for the concerns of others.

Time for a bike ride. 30 miles of bliss. 2 hours where a mosquito will surely make it's presence known, and soon be forgotten.

[Brisul]

No disrespect felt.

You ever get in a spat with the spouse that escalates quickly into nuclear confrontation? Then after the raging subsides you wonder where in the world did that come from. And it's often about something absolutely irrelevant and silly?

I wondered about all this discussion and it traces back months ago to anomolies I witnessed and grew curious about. I'd gotten pretty decent at this game. Good enough that I was finding games where Megaword had played against me and gotten most words but not most points. There would be days when I wouldn't lose any best scores in the personal records. Days.

Then, suddenly, I was losing 4, 6, 8, 10,12 a day. Hmm, me thinks. Something's amiss. Was it the system glitch that sometimes adds 20 longest word records overnight when you haven't played a single game?

So I started tracking who was online when the records disappeared. And it was mpd. Then I started tracking how many game records I lost against how many games he played. It was consistently 18-25% of his games.

In all your years of playing, who have you played 20% of your games day after day after day? Pretty statistically damning.

A few months ago the clan celebrated my sister's 80th birthday. Big deal with all the kids, grandkids, great grandkids attending. Lot of very attractive females in those younger echelons. And during the various conversations the subject of cyberstalking came up. Every single one of those girls had been the victim of cyberstalking. My son's financee is working on her doctorate in clinical psychology. So, as is our wont, we got discussing the psychology of stalkers. What makes them tick. She indicated that stalkers often suffer from self delusion and therapy doesn't work well. You have to be honest and willing to look for therapy to work. But, stalkers tend to be flawed and dishonest. Ergo, no soup for them.

This coincided with the time I suddenly found a fellow player "stalking" my games. Maybe an unjust appraisal, but certainly fitting the pattern. Twenty percent of a person's games played against one player?!

So I provoked a conversation. It wasn't a willingly offered conversation. It was purposely provoked. The argument that these are willing postings falls flat.

His response was a flippant dismissal about my "precious records." He offered that since he considered that I had the largest UR word vocablulary he was trying to learn new words from my games. He also indicated that 5/5 was his preferred game. On the surface, that seemed logical, but really, does a player with decades of word experience need to stalk any other player's games to find words? A person with that much skill and experience will have a stockpile of words that may need tweaking, but certainly won't require that kind of excess.

To me the entire thing was a bit creepy. I wondered what really lay behind that necessity to play 20% of his games against me. Certainly not a normal motivation. There are bunches of players with huge vocabularies here and he wasn't playing 20% of his games against them. And it's not because I have more records popping up on boards to be played. I'll consistently run across 3 boards in a row where the same player has most points. Sometimes I don't even see a single game with my records in a day. How many games do you have to skip through to find 12 or more of my games to play? As a test, I skipped throuugh 157 this morning before I found one. Not that that's a valid sampling of anything, but I'm certainly not going to waste hours seeing how many games I have to skip through to find 12 to arrive at a statistical norm.

Just ask yourself what you would think if some player were doing this to you? You have as large a vocabulary as I do. Would you simply think it's normal behavior? Or would you wonder about what's motivating that player?

I think mpd is also chubtrub. I think chubtrub's scores are more indicatitive of his skill level. Though initially chubtrub scored over 13oo points in a 4x4 game before backing off. So he has access to whatever enables such high skills.

Sorry, but there are just too many niggling inconsistencies and contradictions for me to not be sceptical.

I would love for him to be an honest player putting up valid scores. What a thrill to have a hero. But, the 20% stalking rate reeks of something else. And the explanation of looking to expand one's word base just falls short if we're talking about someone with enough mastery of the game that they can average over 1700 point on 5x5 and 1100 in 4x4. Do you think it's likely that chess Grand Masters are hanging around high school chess matches to discover new lines of attack? If they are, it's either they aren't really Grand Masters or they're interested in something other than the chess.

I've had someone staring at me for months and it's just....creepy.

And I'm sure there are all manner of "explanations". "Oh, you looked like a friend I had." But day after day, week after week? After a while the explanations seem more like cover stories than honest answers.

And, accordng to my maybe someday daughter in law, you're not going to get honest answers. Even when the explanations seem convincing.

Any successful con artist can spin whatever story is necessary to sell you on his scam. So, good explanations might give you confidence that the con is on the up and up, but... that's the point. Confidence. Belief.

And we all want to believe.

I don't buy the explanation that because he isn't earning money playing this game it's not the same as sports. Value is value. You don't spend entire days on things that have no value to you.

But, as I said before, this is a tempest in a teapot. Just wanted to voice why I personally distrust him. Probably none of you were being stalked so you lack that viewpoint. His scornful dismissals have the flavor of someone who's contemptuous of others. Someone who easily justifies whatever he does without regard for the concerns of others.

Time for a bike ride. 30 miles of bliss. 2 hours where a mosquito will surely make it's presence known, and soon be forgotten.

I have really enjoyed the amount of time, effort and thought that you have put into all of your responses.

[Naboka]

The son called and wanted to go riding with us, so that's off until later. While biding my time and cleaning the pool I got to thinking about the misconception that game cheaters just come and disappear.

There's probably at least two categories. One is the prankster that flits in and flits out. Gets his kicks and is gone. The other is the identity cheater. He cheats to maintain his identity status.

There's an avid golfer in the news who's notorious for cheating. It's something he probably can't not do. Nor is it something he recognises as cheating. And he's been doing it for decades.

My son and his friends used to and still do play a lot of online video games. All of them cheat like crazy. They don't see it as cheating.

Status is an essential element to our survival. The more status, the more your chances of rewards and survival. Winning here or other games can provide rewards. Being a winner makes a person feel good about themselves. And when feeling good about yourself is scarce it, like anything valued, increases in value.

Unfortunately, those rewards can't be monetized. Nothing here will provide anyone a loaf of bread at the market.

Nor will my son's games.

Studies indicate that when some people believe a lie and have invested themselve in that lie, presenting them with evidence about the falseness of that lie doesn't make them change their minds. In fact they dig in harder. They attack the source of that evidence. They attack the evidence. They protect their sacred acceptance. They get livid.

Humans can be just a wee bit cray-craay. Some more than others.

Having open minds allow us to reexamine information and make better decisions when the data or premise we've been using is flawed.

So, no, cheaters aren't always flitting in and out. Cheaters can be involved in a game for decades. Sometimes it's little cheats. I'm guilty of lots of little cheats that I've described elsewhere. Most people tended to think those cheats acceptable. Sometimes I feel I'm not being fair. Yet, here I am after several years. I justify it by telling myself I'm playing a different game than anyone else here.

I think the fly-by-night-cheat theory only applies to a particular breed of "player."