Offensive Quotes

[TONY BOY]

Ann Coulter...

Comparing Ann Coulter to Disraeli is a stretch unto itself.... she makes all sorts of outrageous comments, which I won't deal with here. She does it because it gets her publicity and she sells books. So it is a marketing scheme, and nothing else. There is a difference to be made concerning quotes attributed to a person who lived in the past, and statements which are made to influence people, or to sway opinion. I don't see anything on this site which could be interpretted as being "persuasive" to any particular religion or philosophy. It is just a bunch of quotes from real people, or unattributed sayings. I would say that the only remedy you have about a quote you find to be really offensive is to ask that it be removed. Otherwise, what is the point? We know you are offended. But now what? The remark by Disraeli is just his opinion. So what? It doesn't change anything about what you believe or don't believe. It doesn't change my opinion about anything. I doubt anyone is out there saying to themselves: "Gosh, Disraeli thought Christianity was the fulfillment of Judaism, I think I will become a Christian!" I just can't imagine that happening. When I was first on the site, I ran into a quote, "Let him who is without sin, cast the first stone." It was written as "unattributed". Of course it is from the New Testament. But in the end, what difference does it make? This is only an entertainment site, not a philosphical or religious site. There are several quotes from Thomas Kempis who was a 15th century monk who wrote "The Imitation of Christ". The quotes on this site are from that book. But they are only attirbuted to Thomas Kempis, with no mention that they are from the "Imitation of Christ". So what? I suppose if it were properly referenced, some might find that offensive. One thing: I have run into some quotes that have led me to research various philosophers and authors. And what's up with all the Irish Murdoch quotes? I thought it was Iris Murdoch,

[maradnu]

Tony

I made a comment on another thread about Irish Murdoch versus Iris Murdoch. Another person said it was a widespread mistake, pulling in a link from another site with Iris's name incorrect. I guess that makes it okay, at least in his or her mind.

[jdege]

I made a comment on another thread about Irish Murdoch versus Iris Murdoch. Another person said it was a widespread mistake, pulling in a link from another site with Iris's name incorrect. I guess that makes it okay, at least in his or her mind.

Do a bit of googling. She's called "Irish Murdoch" consistently, by a great many people who were quite familiar with her and her work - including a number of her biographers.

"Irish Murdoch" doesn't seem to be a mistake, but rather a name she was widely known by.

[jdege]

The remark by Disraeli is just his opinion.

Actually, no. The remark by Disraeli is an opinion expressed by a character in one of Disraeli's novels. That he wrote a character who believed it doesn't mean that he believed it.

Was Samuel Clemens a racist, because he wrote novels with characters who expressed racist beliefs?

[maradnu]

jdege

I googled "Iris Murdoch" and got 503,000 hits. I googled "Irish Murdoch and got 2,290 hits. I get 4,080 hits on "Iris Murdock". All I can say is that typos happen. Do 2,290 typos make something right? I can get 13,200 hits on "Steeley Dan", does that make that right?

Haven't we about beaten the other to death?

[TONY BOY]

novels....

I think the context of a quote is irrelevant here. If a totally offensive remark is made in a novel, that is the writer's license. The author may be reflecting a real attitude in fictionalized form, or simply using a character to state their own hidden belief. It is unknowable whether Mark Twain was a racist. Who really knows? But offensive quotes from his novels would not be appropriate here. I just don't see the quote from Disraeli all that offensive. But obviously, Maradnu does. If it is that upsetting, just get rid of it. There is a quote from Malcolm X that goes something like: "Show me a capitalist, and I will show you a bloodsucker." I think it is dumb quote. I have gotten it more than once. I am glad to see it, because I know it and can solve it in short order, and get on to the next puzzle. Concerning Irish Murdoch: I am always learning something, even on this site! If there were to be a quote from someone along the lines of: "I left Christianity, and found my true meaning in Judaism, (or Islam, or Buddhism, etc.)" I wouldn't make much of it.... this happens all the time in the real world. And it is just someone's opinion (or a character's opinion in a novel). It doesn't mean I am going to lose my faith, and it doesn't threaten me in any way.

[maradnu]

Disraeli quote

It is true that Disraeli used that quote in his novel "Tancred", but according to Wikipedia (which is admittedly not inerrant) he also said the same thing in Parliament in support of a bill to allow Jews to sit in the House of Commons. Based on that, I would assume that it was indeed Disraeli's opinion.

What offends me most about the quote is a patronizing attitude by a Christian towards Judaism. It seems to imply that Christians have the whole truth, while Jews have only part of the truth. To me that is both patronizing and belittling.

Perhaps ironically, many members of Parliament felt that what Disraeli said was blasphemous (again according to Wikipedia).

[cyclisted]

Christianity...

Well, as of 3/27 the quote, offensive or not, is still in the database. At least all the discussion led me to quite a quick solve. My thoughts on the subject of offensivity are mostly in line with what bonsaisequoia said earlier. we're here to solve puzzles, not to espouse opinions. I have no idea how the quotes for the site are compiled. It would seem to me that, given our voracious appetites, it would be highly unlikely that anyone would have time to evaluate the quotes for offensiveness or any other quality.

Ed

[TONY BOY]

I got ...

I got the same quote last week, and due to all the attention, I solved it in about 20 seconds.... so .... some good has come of all the banter!

[QueenMean]

Judaism is incomplete. Jews are still waiting for their messiah, are they not? That is what the quote is saying. If Christ was not the actual messiah, then Christianity is nothing. It is not a quote against Jews. People who look to be offended in everything ever said must lead very weary lives.

[maradnu]

queenie

Maybe I am "weary" - though mostly of people who show up to make judgements of other people or their religions. Personally, I'd be happy to argue religion with you, though a cryptogram site is not the forum for that. Then again, you've yet to actually do a cryptogram as of this point.

[QueenMean]

Actually, I was one of the first members to join the site and I just haven't re-registered since the crash and have been playing with an anonymous account since statistics aren't all that important to me. So perhaps you shouldn't be so quick to spout off about facts that you know nothing about. It's that same kind of quick to judge that led to you creating this thread which, frankly, no one agrees with you about. You seem to have no problem judging others but get tweaked when it happens to you. A persecution complex is so very unattractive in a modern individual.

[smoochie222]

Queen Mean

Watch and see that he also has to have the last word. LOL

[maradnu]

queenie

I ain't persecuted - by you or anyone else. I began by expressing a strong opinion about a quote. Amazing how a very few people seem to get hot and bothered about that.

If you follow Christianity, that is fine. Different people have different paths, and if that one suits you - great. I find no need to tear one religion down in order to make my own religion appear better, and I don't feel an entertainment site is the place for "my religion is better than yours" - whatever religion it may be directed against, and I feel that particular quote does that.

There are a few other offensive quotes on this site, including some very sexist quotes that also offend me - even though I ain't of the sex they're directed against. Rather than mention those on this forum, I have contented myself with flagging them as offensive after completing them.

So you just registered to tell people of my ilk what you think of us? How wonderful of you to take time from your unweary life to do so. Since I am indeed getting a bit weary, I'll close by hoping that your life continues to remain as unweary as it has been.

BTW smoochie, it is called replying to comments directed to me - which is a form of dialog or communication. In your case however, since you take some exception to it, I shan't reply to anything more you say.

Actually, I am getting weary of this entire subject. I didn't suspect that a stray rant would get so many people worked up.

[smoochie222]

Last Word

When I see your name the word pompous comes to mind.

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