Can someone smarter than me explain the logic behind these two hints to me?

[muskratio]

I've had two puzzles where I decided I needed a hint, and didn't understand the logic behind the hint. Can someone help? haha.

It's not super clear in the picture, but in the second one the square it's talking about is the green square at 5C (using chess-style notation).

Editing to add that I do see why a star needs to go in the highlighted square in the first picture, but it felt like it took several steps to come to that conclusion from the hint.

[admin]

These are both instances where the hint server got a bit muddled - the hints should be correct, but the text corresponding with them clearly is not, and there are definitely better/easier hints that could have been given in each case. I will keep these two screenshots on file and will use them to beef up the text engine on the next code update. Thanks for posting!

[Unikittycornastegasaurus]

Hi, I have had a look at both hints. They aren't very straightforward. I don't know chess-style notation, so I am listing Rows and Columns.

Hint #1. I agree this hint put the cart before the horse. I got there but only after eliminating 2 squares. First, I looked at Rows 11 and 12. In both instances there is one star in the row and all other squares are eliminated except for squares located within the highlighted shape. Therefore, there must be a star in the highlighted shape in Row 11 and Row 12. That accounts for both stars in the highlighted shape. Therefore the square at Row 8 Column 2 may be eliminated. Also there should be an elimination at Row 12 Column 2 because if a star were to be placed in this square, it would prevent me placing your last star in row 11 in any of the three boxes above this square. Once I have eliminated these 2 squares there is only one square left in Column 2--the square that the hint did highlight.

Hint #2. This one, I really don't get. I didn't have any trouble placing enough stars in the red highlighted area. I ran into trouble elsewhere. The following is my logic for this one. I looked at Rows 9 and 10. In each case there is one star already placed in the row and the only available squares to place the 2nd star are located within the red highlighted shape. This accounts for both stars within the highlighted red shape; therefore, all other squares in the red highlighted shape (everything above Row 9) can be eliminated. Then I looked at the hint. If I follow the "what if" proposed by the hint, then there would only be one way to put a star in Row 9 and that would be at Row 9 Column 5. Then, because of the eliminations that would occur if a star were at R9 C5, I would have only one option for a star left in Row 10. That would be Row 10 Column 7. At this point, Columns 5 and 7 would both be full. So there would only be one choice left in Row 12 in the dark blue shape--that would place a star at Row 12 Column 6. Now Columns 5, 6 and 7 are all full. Then I looked up at the light blue oblong shape in Rows 1 and 2. There would only be one open square in this shape. That's not enough to place 2 stars. So, for me, this hint made no sense. I mean, it is correct that there can't be a star where the hint is saying there can't be one. But the logic behind it did not make sense to me. For me it was the light blue shape that I couldn't place enough stars into. The red shape had nothing to do with it. Also there are a whole bunch of eliminations that the hint-maker could have pointed out first.

If someone else can figure out the second hint I would love to hear a better explanation than the one I came up with. I hope this helped. :D

[mather]

Below are my alternative hints.

Puzzle 1: Look at the light pink shape starting at row 6 column 1. Its two stars must go in 2 of columns (1, 3, 4). So any valid star placement in the purple shape can block off at most 1 of those 3 columns. (All 3 of those columns already have one star in them.)
Looking at row 11:
1) if a star is in column 1, then the row 12 star must be columns 3 or 4, which means 2 columns are blocked off, so not a valid option.
2) If a star is in column 3, then the row 12 must be in column 1, which means 2 columns are blocked off, so not a valid option.
Thus, the row 11 star must be in column 2.

Puzzle 1, a different approach: Two more stars are needed in rows 11 and 12, and the purple shape is the only one with open squares, so row 8 column 2 cannot be a star. (Mark that square as eliminated.) With that square eliminated, there only open squares in column 2 are rows 11 and 12, so the the adjacent squares in each column can be eliminated. (Row 11 column 1, row 11 column 3, row 12 column 1, row 12 column 3.) Row 12 column 4 must be a star, and then row 11 column 2 must be a star. Row 6 column 4 is eliminated, so row 8 column 3 is a star, and then row 6 column 1 is a star and the puzzle is done. (I think this approach is much easier than the one above.)

Puzzle 2: Like the original hint, consider placing a star at row 8 column 3. Unlike the original hint, consider how it interacts with the light pink shape starting at row 1 column 1. Since there is already a star in column 3, the light pink shape cannot have a star in column 3. Given the star in column 1, the light pink shape must have a star at row 1 column 2, and one at row (4 or 5) column 1. This makes it impossible to place a second star in the green shape. Thus, row 8 column 3 cannot be a star.

I hope this is helpful.

[canhgealinnag333]

I also came across something similar. The hint told me to eliminate a space that was already eliminated. When I made it a star, they told me that I incorrectly placed a star. When I left it blank, it just told me to eliminate it again. It was really weird, and I’ll screenshot it if I ever come across it again.

[Martika14]

starbattle_hint.png
Here's an example of the hint highlighting the wrong square: it's telling me to eliminate a square that has already been eliminated. Now, granted, there *are* squares that should be eliminated according to the hint (all the orange squares in rows 9-12), but it's not highlighting those, it's highlighting a green square that is already marked as not-a-star.

[muskratio]

These are both instances where the hint server got a bit muddled - the hints should be correct, but the text corresponding with them clearly is not, and there are definitely better/easier hints that could have been given in each case. I will keep these two screenshots on file and will use them to beef up the text engine on the next code update. Thanks for posting!

Thank you for the response! And I can confirm that the hints were correct in both cases, they definitely weren't telling me anything that was wrong.

[muskratio]

Hi, I have had a look at both hints. They aren't very straightforward. I don't know chess-style notation, so I am listing Rows and Columns.

Hint #1. I agree this hint put the cart before the horse. I got there but only after eliminating 2 squares. First, I looked at Rows 11 and 12. In both instances there is one star in the row and all other squares are eliminated except for squares located within the highlighted shape. Therefore, there must be a star in the highlighted shape in Row 11 and Row 12. That accounts for both stars in the highlighted shape. Therefore the square at Row 8 Column 2 may be eliminated. Also there should be an elimination at Row 12 Column 2 because if a star were to be placed in this square, it would prevent me placing your last star in row 11 in any of the three boxes above this square. Once I have eliminated these 2 squares there is only one square left in Column 2--the square that the hint did highlight.

Hint #2. This one, I really don't get. I didn't have any trouble placing enough stars in the red highlighted area. I ran into trouble elsewhere. The following is my logic for this one. I looked at Rows 9 and 10. In each case there is one star already placed in the row and the only available squares to place the 2nd star are located within the red highlighted shape. This accounts for both stars within the highlighted red shape; therefore, all other squares in the red highlighted shape (everything above Row 9) can be eliminated. Then I looked at the hint. If I follow the "what if" proposed by the hint, then there would only be one way to put a star in Row 9 and that would be at Row 9 Column 5. Then, because of the eliminations that would occur if a star were at R9 C5, I would have only one option for a star left in Row 10. That would be Row 10 Column 7. At this point, Columns 5 and 7 would both be full. So there would only be one choice left in Row 12 in the dark blue shape--that would place a star at Row 12 Column 6. Now Columns 5, 6 and 7 are all full. Then I looked up at the light blue oblong shape in Rows 1 and 2. There would only be one open square in this shape. That's not enough to place 2 stars. So, for me, this hint made no sense. I mean, it is correct that there can't be a star where the hint is saying there can't be one. But the logic behind it did not make sense to me. For me it was the light blue shape that I couldn't place enough stars into. The red shape had nothing to do with it. Also there are a whole bunch of eliminations that the hint-maker could have pointed out first.

If someone else can figure out the second hint I would love to hear a better explanation than the one I came up with. I hope this helped. :D

Thanks for the response! I followed pretty much the same logic you did when looking back at my screenshot the day after taking it (and in retrospect I don't know why I needed a hint, the next steps are pretty obvious). The hint itself is just confusing.

If I'm understanding correctly I also followed a very similar string of logic for hint #2, but like you I ultimately couldn't understand how I was supposed to deduce what I'm told in the hint. In both cases it felt like there were much more obvious/simple hints that could have been given. But oh well! The vast majority of the time everything is extremely clear, so a blip here and there isn't a big deal, of course! :)

[Unikittycornastegasaurus]

I agree. For the most part the hints are REALLY helpful. I have learned a good deal from them.

I am glad I could help. I wish someone else had written about that second hint! I'm good, but I'm no expert on these star battles. :D

[Martika14]

This hint has me totally stumped. Trial & error proves that it's correct, insofar as I hit a contradiction eventually if I try putting a star in the indicated spot, but I haven't the foggiest notion how I'm supposed to eliminate the square other than by guessing. (Also, why isn't shape E marked in some way?)

starbattle_hint2.png

[Martika14]

Ah, never mind, I've figured it out: there's already a sneaky little star in the green shape, in column 11.

The lack of hatching on the shape still seems like a bug, though.