Cheaters

[Troglodyte]

I occasionally find proof of Wordtwist cheaters. When the game had only been played once, and that player found only ONE word, and it somehow happens to be the longest. They don't have time to type more than that. We are proud to not cheat and still fine a lot of long words.

[Spike1007]

I'll do that too on new boards. While I'm not currently going all out for highest average points/word, I'd still like to take only words that will increase that average. On a board that hasn't been played before, I'll either take one (sometimes more, like the singular) word if it's worth enough, or I'll abandon the board. I don't consider that cheating. I am finding the word(s) unassisted, and it's not like I've used up the word, so that nobody else can play it. By the way, often it doesn't just "happen" to be the longest or best word, it's just that that's what we're going for & what we're good at. (OK, sometimes we miss, and there are better words left unfound. I love to find those, especially on boards that have been played a lot. I've even improved on my own "best" longest words.) Anyway, we just play with different goals.

I'd like to hear your arguments for why, once you find a great word, not taking lesser words is somehow cheating.

[erakis17]

Results like this might seem bizarre to you, but what's really going on is that lalatan (and a number of other fantastic players) are using the same board to play a totally different game than you (or I) play. If you're chasing the top pts/word spot on the leaderboard, you'll hit upon this strategy very quickly: stare at the board until you're sure you found the longest word, giving up if you can't find it.

There are occasionally real cheaters here, but fewer than basically anywhere else I've played boggle. And the admin has been doing a decent job of scrubbing their records after-the-fact. I suggest doing what I do when you see an astonishing word from lalatan or Spike or others: admire it, try to remember it, and move on to the next game!

[mdyak]

I suggest doing what I do when you see an astonishing word from lalatan or Spike or others: admire it, try to remember it, and move on to the next game![/QUOTE]

Or play games they have played and see if you can find the same words they did... I've gotten steadily better doing that and had a lot of fun in the process. I'm never going to be fast enough to match most words or most points, so this is where I can succeed. Once in a blue moon I actually beat them!

[DrPlacebo]

This is an open-ended game. You can pick your own objectives.

We sometimes get actual cheaters. You can tell because they seem get every word on every board they play, and often play a ridiculous number of games (i.e. they'd have to be playing a game a minute, 24 hours a day)... fortunately they get caught and scrubbed quite quickly.

[crazykate]

Troglodyte, I've seen a similar post of yours on the old server, and the replies were much the same. Lalatan does not cheat, he just has a different playing style. You play as a team, which others might consider cheating, but as it isn't banned it's just as legitimate as hunting for long words. Why are you so hung up on this issue?
You might try playing according to lalatan's style yourself to find out how it works. It's really not that difficult with a bit of practise: you need a good memory, a large vocabulary, and the self-discipline to limit yourself to the best word you find per board. I change my objective each month and I'm good at long-word-hunting, but not if I enter shorter words first, that takes up too much time and concentration. If I try to play every word I find, I overlook the long ones. If I play for a high point average, my overall score still drops because I find fewer words. It all depends on what you focus on.
Accusing lalatan of cheating yet again after we all jumped to his defence in the old forum just makes you seem like you're holding a grudge. Let it go.

[Spike1007]

I have to agree with kate (especially the part where she says that she's good at long-word hunting). In my first response, I pretty much deliberately ignored what I saw as Troglodyte's implied accusation of us using a boggle solver of sorts. (I wasn't going to defend us (lalatan, and by extension, me & a lot of others here) from that since it wasn't explicitly stated.) Anyway, with some practice (and, as erakis17 & mdyak stated, some observation of previously-found long words), you get the feel for what kind of words they hide in here. I'd never find a lot of short to intermediate-length ultra-rare words. The long ones though, are often built from recognizable pieces. You learn to look for those parts, and try to assemble them into a word you know, or what at least seems word-like. (I'm sure that we've all been surprised when something weird works.) Going for long words, you think first & type later. If you find a decent word, you look for what can be added, or if you find disconnected parts, you try to fill in the blanks. When you're fairly satisfied, you start typing. Sometimes you type the plural first (maybe twice, if your typing skills are like mine & things don't always come out like you think) , and if that doesn't work, you back off to the singular. (Generally, you type the possibilities, going from long to short until something works.) Sometimes you jump the gun, and type a word before realizing you could have added a prefix or suffix. If you have time, you add the new word. If you're happy with the average, you accept the game.

Anyway, as others have noted, it's a different way to play. Like mdyak, I'll never set records for most words or points, but I have found (with time & practice) that I can get big words.

By the way, this is really in defense of lalatan (not that he needs it). I've learned a lot about this from him and playing along side of him for the last few years.

[Inkita]

I have been playing this game a long time and lalatan, among many others, makes the playing that much more fun for me as I am a slow old brain, an even slower typist and my vocabulary is definitely average. I LOVE to see the long strung-together prefixes and suffixes padding out the words that they (too many user-names to list but you know who they are) have a knack for finding while I'm only finding an 8 letter word. Likewise for the highest word count winners. How can anyone be bothered by this I wonder let alone see it as "cheating"? Over the years I've learned that puzzlebaron boggle accepts just about anything ending in "nesses" and if you can find a paleo/psycho/graphic or logic in there as well you sometimes end up with a winner. I learned that from being bested by these words many a time! Playing this game for me is a way to unwind, take my mind off of worries and have a little personal challenge for the aging grey matter. Relax and have fun. The great thing about lalatan, Spike and many other of the longest word finders is that they are humble and supportive and setting a great example of how to have actual fun in competition.

[bwt1213]

It is not cheating to play the game your way. It is not cheating if you play within the rules. Not all the rules are written. The most important unwritten rule is that a PERSON must play the game. This was not intended to be a game for computer programmers to write player bots, nor a game for weasels to run scripts on. It is very clearly a game for people to enjoy, and if you do something that takes away that enjoyment, you MAY have committed a sort of sin. It is not a sin to win the game within the rules and as an unaided person, and if you accuse someone of "ruining" the game because they have had the effrontery of playing it too well -- then YOU have committed a sin. I define "sin" as "a defect in character caused by an inability to accept less than perfection in oneself".

[JJBeanie]

How is that proof? What rule is Lalatan breaking?

While you might feel that it isn't right to sit and look for the longest word, it's not against the rules and it's not as easy as it sounds. I, on the other hand, feel that playing as a team is not playing in the spirit of the game, but if it's not against the rules, I'm not going to accuse you of cheating.

Another question I'd like to ask you, Troglodyte: Does your team play every game that is presented to them? Or do you choose to ignore some for whatever reason and select "load new game"?

[pdiddp]

I've been playing for five years now and one thing I've seen repeated over and over is the theme on cheating. And as often as not it's aimed at someone who is not a cheat but a very good player. Megaword, as an example, has been accused more than once of cheating despite his posting videos of himself playing some of his best scores. Lalatan gets accused by way of the posted picture despite earlier threads and his many records that speak to his prowess with long complex words. In both cases the accuser apparently sees something they don't like, understand or are maybe jealous of and yells 'cheat'.

Before you claim that someone is cheating, look into it a bit first! You'll find a lot of players who enjoy trying to find the longest words possible, are real good at it, and vie for the APPW trophy that can only be won by playing 1, 2 or at most 3 words per game. Instead of accusing them, try learning from them. It was by looking at the long words Lalatan, Spike1005 (may he rest in peace), Dasan and many others found and reading in the posts how those words were found that I was able to finally collect a couple trophies of my own.

[crazykate]

When the game had only been played once, and that player found only ONE word, and it somehow happens to be the longest. They don't have time to type more than that.

I just wanted to clarify that many best-word or longest-word hunters seldom need the full 2 minutes (in 4x4) or 3 minutes (in 5x5) to find what they are looking for. I just tried a 5x5 board where the previous longest word record was 7 letters. I saw pretty much instantly that the board contained the promising combination NESSES, and within half a minute I had pieced together the word HERBIVOROUSNESSES (worth 32 points). I then clicked on the red tick symbol in the upper right corner and finished the game with 2 new records and 2 minutes 29 seconds to spare.
"They don't have time to type more than that" is a false assumption.

[lalatan]

[QUOTE=crazykate;n19163]Troglodyte, I've seen a similar post of yours on the old server, and the replies were much the same. Lalatan does not cheat, he just has a different playing style. You play as a team, which others might consider cheating, but as it isn't banned it's just as legitimate as hunting for long words. Why are you so hung up on this issue?[QUOTE]
Thanks kate. That was a great question you posed. When I read what the Trogs posted I didn't think it was even worth commenting on. (However, since you, Spike, pdiddp and so many others commented I thought I should as well. Thanks for your support everyone! ) We tried reasoning with them before but to no avail. The notion that playing 1 word is cheating seems to be embedded in their minds. (Hard to believe but just today I played a word for the first time that describes it perfectly to me: WRONGHEADEDNESSES. I first saw -headed, then saw it joined -nesses. When I saw "wrong" I thought, "Could it be??! " I Loled when I saw it was valid.) There's just some wrongheadednesses going on here.

[QUOTE=crazykate;n19163]You might try playing according to lalatan's style yourself to find out how it works. It's really not that difficult with a bit of practise: you need a good memory, a large vocabulary, and the self-discipline to limit yourself to the best word you find per board. I change my objective each month and I'm good at long-word-hunting, but not if I enter shorter words first, that takes up too much time and concentration. If I try to play every word I find, I overlook the long ones. If I play for a high point average, my overall score still drops because I find fewer words. It all depends on what you focus on.[QUOTE] Well put and true. My development as a long word hunter began to accelerate after I put away the notion I had to get 100 pts/board as well as the best/longest word. For me it took a Lot of practice to get where I'm at. You seemed to have a knack for it from when you began. With lots of practice I think I have knack for it too now.
mod
After I posted this I saw that the previous method of copying and pasting quotes doesn't seem to work on the new forum.

[lalatan]

I have to agree with kate (especially the part where she says that she's good at long-word hunting). In my first response, I pretty much deliberately ignored what I saw as Troglodyte's implied accusation of us using a boggle solver of sorts. (I wasn't going to defend us (lalatan, and by extension, me & a lot of others here) from that since it wasn't explicitly stated.) Anyway, with some practice (and, as erakis17 & mydak stated, some observation of previously-found long words), you get the feel for what kind of words they hide in here. I'd never find a lot of short to intermediate-length ultra-rare words. The long ones though, are often built from recognizable pieces. You learn to look for those parts, and try to assemble them into a word you know, or what at least seems word-like. (I'm sure that we've all been surprised when something weird works.) Going for long words, you think first & type later. If you find a decent word, you look for what can be added, or if you find disconnected parts, you try to fill in the blanks. When you're fairly satisfied, you start typing. Sometimes you type the plural first (maybe twice, if your typing skills are like mine & things don't always come out like you think) , and if that doesn't work, you back off to the singular. (Generally, you type the possibilities, going from long to short until something works.) Sometimes you jump the gun, and type a word before realizing you could have added a prefix or suffix. If you have time, you add the new word. If you're happy with the average, you accept the game.

Anyway, as others have noted, it's a different way to play. Like mydak, I'll never set records for most words or points, but I have found (with time & practice) that I can get big words.

By the way, this is really in defense of lalatan (not that he needs it). I've learned a lot about this from him and playing along side of him for the last few years.

That's a great synopsis, Spike. I have also learned a lot from you, especially how to craft words heretofore unknown to me. I would say many others have benefited from your instruction as well.
The last 2 months I played one of my fave pioneering word finds of yours, BALLISTOCARDIOGRAPHY, twice for new records.

[lalatan]

Apparently, it's a dangerous endeavor to edit anything on this forum. I just added a line in a reply to kate and it's now locked up as anti-spam and won't be seen until Stephen (who I think IS admin, a 1 man show) unlocks it.